Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., joins Martin Bashir to discuss the Republicans eschewing a thorough Fast and Furious investigation for a partisan witch hunt versus US Attorney General Eric Holder.
BREAKING: The House has approved a precedent-setting resolution to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in criminal contempt of Congress. It was the first time a sitting Cabinet member has been held in contempt.
"Today's vote is the regrettable culmination of what became a misguided - and politically motivated - investigation during an election year," Holder said. "By advancing it over the past year and a half, Congressman Issa and others have focused on politics over public safety."
Republicans pushed through the resolution because Holder did not turn over documents related to a botched gun-tracking operation known as Fast and Furious.
The final vote was 255-67, with only two Republicans voting "no." 108 Democrats abstained from voting on what they have long argued is a politically motivated stunt. Many walked out of the Capitol in protest.
House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi react to a House vote to hold U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt.
In a press conference with the abstaining legislators, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), who will be our EXCLUSIVE guest tonight at 8pET, characterized the vote as an "abuse of power."
The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee wants Justice Department records from a 10-month period after February 2011. That month, the department initially denied guns were allowed to be purchased in Arizona and be taken to Mexico. In early December that year, the department acknowledged the assertion was wrong.
Full coverage tonight on The Ed Show at 8pET on MSNBC!
Leave a Comment:
No whining allowed. This was a double-digit bipartisan decision.
No! - 17 spineless democrats don't make it a bi-partisan "decision". Lest you call a massive walk out the equivalent of agreeing.
No I would call a walk out a childish and immature reaction which is typical of the ones who did it. These same people are the ones who constantly complain about the right's obstructionism too.
So not only are they acting like petulant children, they're also hypocrites.
You don't know what obstructionism is. You see when the right likes to do it in the Senate for instance or any other party the reason it's obstruction isn't because they don't support it it's because they block it with procedural things like a fullibuster. It's only obstruction if both sides need to work together and refuse so that what needs to be done doesn't get done. So since this is a party line vote none of the democrats really needed to show up they can't do anything that.......
Obstruction is when the resolution doesn't get voted on
One Republican voting for a Democrat Bill makes it Bi-partisan, but 17 Democrats voting with Republicans is not. That is funny.
The issue that needs to be discussed is that congress can't order the executive branch to violate US law and the constitution.
Wiretaps and transcripts requested by Issa and Boehner cannot legally be released to the control of people outside the court that authorized them without violating US law.
US Code 18 Chapter 119 Section 2510
US Code 18 Chapter 119 Section 2510 indicates it is illegal to release the wiretap, audio, and video recordings to congress.
How is it possible this topic did not come up during these discussion?
The fourth amendment indicates right to privacy for "papers and effects", which includes court ordered wiretaps and video surveillance where no laws have been violated.
When did the House of Representatives provide blanket authorization to the executive branch to violate laws and the constitution?
No US citizens involved in firearms transactions broke any laws, and none of the information held by the court can be released to the public.
Fast and Furious - CNN/Fortune
This situation makes it look like the House of Representatives has committed treason.
Gee, what happens as a private citizen if I don't comply with a subpoena? Even with just the local superior court. I guess I go to jail huh.
Holder is lucky they didnt cuff him and stuff him!
@Michael Portman,
If you work in DoD, NSA, CIA, DOJ, or DoS, and you get a subpoena from congress, you can not speak directly if related to work.
Your organization MUST send a manager for the organization you work for, and you must brief that manager (or another manager that will do that). The manager will speak for you.
The historical minimum qualification is GS-15, captain, or kernel. Nobody below that level is authorized to disclose or discuss information outside the executive branch.
Congress may request classified information and the information that is released needs to be screened to prevent unauthorized disclosure of national security and the identity of law enforcement agents and foreign agents.
Members of congress (like M. Bachmann) must be sworn to secrecy before they can have access to classified information, and any breech will result in imprisonment under the National Security Act of 1947 when traced back to the source. The oath that authorizes classified access also eliminates your first amendment rights.
Holder would be justified if he were to decide to investigate congress for leaking most of the 7,600 pages of classified information to the press that have already been provided.
Crack it's a shame you have such detailed and informative posts and that there are people like Michael who are too dumb to read any of it
you've heard of the patriot act....lol.....but the point is none the less understood
So republi-conmen how is it illegal to not release documents to the public that can't legally be released and annswer everytime they wanted you to be there almost a dozen different times
what's the crime?
now as tono one seemingly noticing that I think it's just legal talk that most aren't educated enough with our poor public education system to care about and this did factor it since Holder did say he would be willing to speak the chairman and give him what they requested behind closed doors in a private session since haing it publicly would be against the law
then you've got executive privelege, quite constitutional no matter who you want to believe, so the presidency can order things sealed and they are to be sealed no questions asked so the house doesn't get to fight that
all quite legal the crime is the failed pathetic laughable investigation....how is it that Fortune magazine was able to get the clear story that a year long congressional investigation never got to?
Where's the jobs bills you promised Mr. Speaker...student loans, boxer-inhofe......couldn't get those done....couldn't do anything other than 30 some acts to make fraud and cheating easier since that is what deregulation is? Still find time to go on vacation next week and have a pointless vote to repeal obamacare that will go nowhere. GOP just admit it you have no plan and you don't care.
Say what you will about obamacare which is constutitional unlike 3/4 of the GOP's sb1070 that would have harrased people and never even actually helped them secure border which they should do.............I think people are tired of the GOP ranting lies about obamacare while pushing the republi-could-careless plan
Crackhead, It is one thing to deny the request for the wiretaps based on a lawful reason, it is another to deny the requested documents pertaining to Who started the program, who in the administration knew about it, when did they know about it, what was the objective of the program, etc...
Holder did provide some documents but to this day these questions have yet to be answered. It is true that Holder did provide a response via testimony, but he was less than truthful. It is a reasonable assumption that Holder is refusing to provide the documents because they will prove even more lies from Holder and others. There is ample evidence that Holder knew of the operation long before he admitted to knowing before Congress.
17 Democrats stayed and did their JOB!!! they didn't walk out as they stayed and REPRESENTED! They did what hey were hired for. you want to say something then VOTE NO....If anyone else did that at their regular jobs, well your fired!!
The Dem's that left were no different and should be put on notice, if you can't stay and represent for what you were hired for, then we'll (American People) hire someone who can in 2012!!
Your post is an OUTRAGE. Apparently, you do not understand the point of PROTEST, WALKOUT, or MARCH. It is meant to draw attention to an occurrence so vile that there are no words or other reasonable action to illustrate the emotions felt.
The only reasonable recourse would be to stay and physically FIGHT! Instead you...walk away.
On a different note: I do not understand how I feel that some democrats supposedly voted against their conscience, in order to appease a bully like the NRA. I understand and I don't understand. This one will take time....
2ez,
your post #1.4-
right or wrong, lets be clear about why the vote to hold AG Eric Holder in "contempt of congress" was "bi-partisan".
the NRA says (stupidly and falsely) that the Obama Administration's "fast and furious" began as an anti-gun agenda. they say that lawmakers who don't vote to hold the Attorney General in contempt will be held to account in Nov. elections.
is each democrat who voted responsible for his or her own vote? YES.
but that's why they got 17 votes from democrats.
Suzette, Are you saying that the Democrats placed their political futures over all else? If that is the case perhaps the voters in their districts may want to look for some replacements with a little Integrity and greater Ethics. It also appears you believe the voters are incapable of making a reasonable determination as to the motivation behind Fast and Furious. The NRA point of view is considered valid by many. Obama and Holder have made public speeches in support of gun control at the Federal level. The lack of a method of tracking the weapons once they crossed the border, the absence of any arrests associated with the program, Holder lying to Congress, and Holder's failure to provide the documents also leads a prudent person to question the motivation behind the program if not to create an environment conducive to initiating Federal gun control regulations.
crack- that argument is interesting. Why didn't Holder think of it instead of E.P.? It would have made him look more law abiding and less as if he were hiding something...
Really since this little thing called fortune magazine answered all those questions pretty well by talking to actual agents. Look it up, now since I know you won't lets go like this no documents other than the ones that can not be released to the public have in fact been shown. Over 7000 pages of them. Furhtermore the house committee had access to the ones not release just not publicly. The AG invited them to view them in private as the law required and the Darrell Issa said no. The committee had access if they really wanted to those they chose not to to drum up fake outrage.
Rusty the AG can not invoke executive privelege more importantly it isn't important what it looks like it matters what happened and no documents or testimony has suggested that the president or AG developed or directly managed this case. The scope of this thing is as voter fraud only limited by the scope of one's own imagination.
Who directed the program? David Voth.
Where did it happen? Arizona ATF field office.
Did the ATF intentionally walk guns? No, not on purpose.
Was the DOJ cooperative with their efforts? No, if anything the agents felt the prosecutors didn't want anything to do with them.
When did they try to seize guns? Whenever they could.
How well did they do that? Poorly since most of the people investigated working for the cartel committed no crimes since private, unlicensed, gun transfers are legal in Arizona.
When did the ATF agents say they talked about it to the president or ag? Never. They never even suggested they were in direct contact with them.
How many agents were involved? Roughly a dozen or so.
Is this the first time the ATF has used tactics like this? No, they did this under Bush as well, it is not the first time.
How many were arrested? None, they legally couldn't and those they did pursue prosectors were not willing to prosecute. They none the less gave them the names of suspects putting the ball in the prosecutor's court.
CC- I'm not clear on facts and find it a waste of time to become so. I only find it interesting when someone uses executive priviledge as a tactic. It is seen as a method to coverup by the opposition side, no matter who uses it. After this case, I expect liberals wouldn't have a complaint the next time a conservative uses it.
Cynical, According to the below, the long standing AFT Policy of intercepting the weapons and making arrests was abandoned at the direction of a representative of the AG. Funding for the program was also provided by the DOJ. Holder did lie about when he became aware of the program and that the program was started under Bush. There are many questions that have yet to be answered and using EP to halt Truth Finding is a cover up in itself. What are they hiding?
"In November 2009, the Phoenix office's Group VII, which would be the lead investigative group in Fast and Furious, began to follow a prolific gun trafficker. He had bought 34 firearms in 24 days, and he and his associates bought 212 more in the next month. The case soon grew to over two dozen straw purchasers, the most prolific of which would ultimately buy more than 600 weapons.
The tactic of letting guns walk, rather than interdicting them and arresting the buyers, led to controversy within the ATF. As the case continued, several members of Group VII, including John Dodson and Olindo Casa, became increasingly upset at the tactic of allowing guns to walk. Their standard Project Gunrunner training was to follow the straw purchasers to the hand-off to the cartel buyers, then arrest both parties and seize the guns. But according to Dodson, they watched guns being bought illegally and stashed on a daily basis, while their supervisors, including David Voth and Hope MacAllister, prevented the agents from intervening.
However, other accounts of the operation insist that ATF agents were prevented from intervening not by ATF officials, but rather by federal prosecutors with the Attorney General's office, who were unsure of whether the agents had sufficient evidence to arrest suspected straw-buyers. According to some reports, many agents insisted they were prevented from making arrests because prosecutors were unwilling to engage in what could become a potentially contentious political battle over Second Amendment rights during an election year, particularly given the difficult nature of prosecuting straw buyers, and the weak penalties associated with it, even if successful. Instead, prosecutors instructed ATF agents not to make arrests, but rather continue collecting evidence in order to build a stronger case. One tactic proposed for doing so was a wiretap of suspected straw-buyers, in an attempt to link the suspects to criminal activities taking place on the Mexican side of the border."
That's because they were never in favor of the tactics involved in the first place. Funding for all federal law enforcement comes from the federal government.
Yes because they weren't sure if the actions of these suspects was illegal to begin. With why should prosecutors be gung ho about arresting people they aren't sure broke the law. Remember private gun transfer is not a crime unless they can prove that it will be for a crime. Proving intent is always difficult. You have to prove the person couldn't have not known it was for crime.
You know this is how the ATF operates but you're willing to give them a pass on their cowboys antic to attack the obama administration. If you don't get rid of the department you won't get rid of the problem. Whether the potus or ag are alive or not and in office won't stop this from happening. Why are we giving this agency yet another pass? There the ones that did it, there the ones that F----- up, nobody wants their heads what kind of bs is that
Shut the ATF down is the solution. Playing politics isn't.
I am more than willing to listen to people who advocate shutting down whole sections of the Government. CC- you and I may have common ground here.
Cynical, I agree with you about shutting down the AFT. I think the EPA, Department of Education, and several others should go as well, but that doesn't address the issue. What you are suggesting now is that the Federal Government i.e. the ATF and the AG's Office initiated investigation of US citizens not knowing if the activity they were investigating was a crime. That is scary. I believe we still have Statutory Law in this country, and a Statute must be written, it must include the act or omission of the act which is prohibited, as well as the punishment for a violation. What you are saying is the ATF and the AG's Office had no idea what Criminal Statue they were investigation. A simple review of Title 18 of the US Code failed to identify any laws regarding the export of Firearms. We do however know it is a violation of Mexican Law. The absence of a US Law prohibiting the activity makes it extremely difficult for a US Federal Agent to affect an arrest, the Mexican Authorities did in deed have the authority to do so, the problem is they were not working with the Mexican Government. That said it is obvious their motivation was something other than stopping the sale of the firearms and preventing them from crossing the border. I don't see how you can simply suggest the ATF be abolished and lets get on with life. The AG's Office was up to their necks in this.
No. Wrong again. Listen.
The ATF and the prosecutors were never friends in the first place, they were never on the same page in the first place. They were never working together perhaps they should have but they didn't. The agents thought this up and executed it to some controversy even in their own group. If the prosecutors were with them from the beginning why did the ATF have a hard time getting any of these DOJ guys to prosecute.
They didn't prosecute because they didn't think they could prove it in court unlike the ATF agents. Private gun transfers are legal and thus you have to prove the transaction was to further a crime. You must prove the seller couldn't have know the weapon was intended to be used illegally. So since private transfers are legal it makes it difficult for those charges to hold up in court. In the court room truth is a shockingly and sadly place where truth isn't exactly as valuable as one might think. It's about what you can make people believe not as much what actually happened. Unfortunate but true. So a defense is just going to say they didn't know and unless they have something to prove that they will lose. Proving intent is very tough in any case.
The ATF quite clearly did not plan or want this to not work. There is zero to even suggest that this was the intention to begin with. That may not have been what happened but it wasn't on purpose. Which in my opinion speaks to the agency's incompetence which is why they need to go.....because you'd think that would be obvious in terms of the problems they faced...but apparently not.
More importantly you do realize that they never know whether the person is guilty or not in law enforcement that's why they investigate to find out. Clearly the ATF believed they were criminal and not a single individual has suggested otherwise. So if you suspect someone of murder you don't declare them guilty you have to investigate to find out whether they are guilty and be able to prove that in court. It doesn't matter whether the you're guilty or not if the state can't prove that you will go free.
This is similar to the trayvon martin incident, one detective with some experience was vehement about wrong doing and thought they should pursue charges. The prosecutor however did not believe that they had a case because of a florida state law. This is near identical to this case. It was not about whether anyone knew or even thought the people were innocent it was about how they didn't think they could prove it in court.
No one set out to investigate people who they firmly believed were innocent. That's why it was a waste of time to begin with on the part of the agents.
They very much were intending to investigate crimes and they very much knew what those alleged crimes were your assertion to the contrary is laughable. And no that is no my logic or statement so those are your words not mine. It's clear they knew what they were investigating for which is why they seized guns where ever they could and why the prosecutors later thought they didn't have enough evidence. If they didn't then how did the prosecutors know they didn't have enough evidence?
Furthermore more you continually declare that this was managed by eric holder and that too is laughable if that is the case prove it. And no you not need access to any documents, just ask the agents who were there. Then have a look at the chain of command which doesn't require this one team of agents to call either the ag or potus for clearance. This idea that people in such high office thought of and managed this on the ground is a joke, you know that. Do explain how holder or obama would have to have known and planned what happened? Once again they did not intend to lose them unless you buy the work of one or two agents who regardless what they say now were part of the people doing it. You don't think those agents might want to c.y.a. by saying they were not proud of what they did in fact do?
Now on guns going across the border it is clear you and the rest of right are not concerned about that, it has been going on for years and the GOP has never once been outraged about the violence before. You talk about working with mexican government....THE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO WANTS THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN BACK.....you know that thing the republicans loathe and have refused to support. So don't expect people to by you even care about the guns goig across the border because other solutions addressing gun violence in this country and across the border and the GOP has rejected all of them.
Be as blinded by politics if you want but mark my words if you don't change the ATF this will occur again. It occured before holder and obama and it will happen after because the ag and the president aren't in charge of this. Another reason to close the ATF, not enough oversight. You know that after this whole contempt issue there will be virtually no changes to the ATF. Let congress distract you and this idiot ADD country will move on and not actually fix anything. That's why we need to put every last bit of focus on the agency responsible. Everyone wants Holder's head, no one even cares about any of the people who actually were physically responsible.
Some Solution.
I see now that we have been busily arming the Syrian protestors. One wonders if the Left is supportive of this? I suspect they are because they will unless they can find a memo or something from Bush II regime that suggests arming them, and in finding such, can lay the blame on him and exonerate Obama.
Cynical, You will believe what you want, and I will do the same. You do however make a great case for my opinion that our Federal Government is "Too Big to Succeed". We have Welfare and Medicaid fraud running rampant, the ATF with their "Lone Wolf" mentality, the GSA and their waist and abuse, the Education System that is failing, etc.... And the Liberal answer is, "Make it Bigger".
Too bad nobody wants to do that you right wing fools always say that when folks don't want to just shut things down for no practical reason and provide nothing to replace it
the welfare queen fabrication by reagan has been long abandoned because it's just not true
the neo-con chant is always destroy/kill/repeal and replace yet never having any plan to replace it
public education is failing because local and state governments aren't accountable to strong national standards which every other nation with superior education systems generally have in some form.....sadly many local communities do their best to make it easy not valuable. Now you'll bring out some laughable plan about privatization and teacher's unions but just look at every other higher performing country and see whether you find that most of them differ from the US in the way they address either of those....go look....compare the systems and then come and try to say the biggest difference is privatization on unions
And just ehen exactly did we start giving any surians guns...last I checked we were doing nothing....I suspect that hasn't actually happend based on the fact that this would be major news and I've never heard that especially since I don't support it. No armament giving and exchange discussions for any non NATO country. No discussion at all, no even humoring the idea.
oh you do know that it's the people from the right who are actually in favor of that...so....if any left official is guilty for supporting it the right damn sure is too
The vote was no surprise, since it can't go any further. The Senate won't impeach, nor would the President approve it. This was pure "political theater" that Conservatives could join knowing there'd be no real real consequences.
Now they have to prove Holder broke the law.
This should be interesting.
Crackhead, they won't even try to prove Holder broke the law because they might find out somthing they don't to hear, that Bush and Cheney knew more about it and approved it.
The Dems who voted for contempt are not surprise given the NRA arm twisting on this issue. There were two votes, one on criminal contempt which the justice department will not follow through on, and a second civil contempt. The House can higher it's own lawyers to pursue in court, but since courts move slow it is unlikely that this can get to and through court before this congress looses it's ability to pursue the charge this coming January when a new Congress is seated.
Done, there was a vote, the Republicans get red meat for the base, and then nothing of any substance ever comes out of this vingette of political theatre. Congress is still accomplishing nothing.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120628142742AAey4kG see post #16.
You have to applaud their consistency.
I just saw the list of Dems who voted with the NRA. Boswell from my state, but he's pretty much been a Blue Dog since 2008, and Kathy Hochul N.Y. Remember she got elected in a district that had been Repub for 115 yrs? All her constituents must be NRA members. She'll probably get re-elected now!
My sympathies.
Thank you, and I've voted for that turncoat, too!
I really thought I remembered Obama running on a platform for openess in governement. Taking executive priv would seem to be just a tad ironic. But- he probably has good reason.
Mugsy,
even though this contempt charge won't go any further (?), that doesn't mean there would not have been consequences, had the repubs voted the "wrong way".
this is why democrats who voted, voted "yes".
No consequences maybe in Nov went we voter them out.
Mr. Holder issued a statement saying this was a conspiracy. I have always said it was a conspiracy first against the President and now against the Attorney General.
I agree!
Thats OK, I imagine, even though he has been nothing but respectful to the House Republicans, he holds them in a little bit of contempt as well.
This was nothing more that political theatre, and will go no where and amount to nothing. Once again nothing to benefit the American People is being accomplished in Congress.
Republicans are the lowest of the low. And if they think this is going to help them win in November, they're crazy. But we already knew that, didn't we? Mean and vindictive retribution for the HC decision AND voter suppression counteraction.
Earth to G.O.P.:
Enquiring minds want to know.
And only 300 lies found in your posts since you got banned and came back that is a record your mommy should be proud her little man finally found something he could do, lie.
hey, republic was there, Whom. He lived in Obama's skin. ROTFFL.....This guy could be a comedian. Now if it was romney's book we could probably pay the tapes back to prove all his lies.....just roll the tapes.....and we could also have some more laughs about how disconnected willard is with the real world. Ha, Ha, Ha!
yep, re-regs are a lie, they lie to get re-reged.
So what re reg anything you post is a lie because you are a lie so therefore you can copy and paste away but who will read a liars lies except other liars.
Why bother it will all be gone when you are banned again so replying to you and your nonsense with fact is a waste of time when we can be having fun laughing at your lame attempts at being anything other then a re reg.
Interesting. No link provided, and not a single "lie" actually mentioned-just the accusation.
Which to a righty, is the same as a fact.
You support the guy who's said there are times in his life where he's faced a pink slip....except he hasn't.
Or that he understands working america except he hasn't living his entire life in the priveleged sector
or called sb1070 a model for the nation then said he didin't
who said let detroit go bankrrupt then said he was for the rescue.....then derided it again
says he's always been pro-life yet ran for senate saying he'd protect a woman's right to choose
says he doesn't support gay marriage while running for president even though he did when he ran for senate
claims he neer said romneycare was a model for nation even though he did
says he's anti gun control, running for senate he supported it
claims to be severly conservative yet was "indepedent" during Reagan Bush
agrees with personhood laws banning hormonal contraception then says he doesn't want to ban hormonal contraception
claims president gave money to friends at solyndra even a real investigation occured and concluded this was not the case. After giving money to a failed solar company as governor which was investigated and revealed to be exactly the case. An investigation proved it.
Says he's against dream act, then says he'd think about it, now says nothing
The far right seeks and celebrates a policy of fundamental deceit and dishonesty to enforce their agenda. Far right tactics are facist tactics. Now we know why you need to invent conspiracies, you're a lifetime Birch society member and your candidate is a fake conservative with no convictions. We know it's okay to admit, Romney sucks more than Obama and that's pretty bad. So it's unfortunate you have a coward as nominee as opposed to a person with smarts and a spine like Jon Huntsman but you don't and you need to deal with that.
We know it's been a tough week for republican spin machines with the SCOTUS slicing up the Arizona law and denying your claims on obamacare. Fortune magazine showed Issa's house "investigation" to be a joke. So maybe you should re-read that constitution you guys claim to know so much about.
@BHO is Golfing,
Does it hurt really bad when you try to think?
Sometimes people have really strong opinions about things that are like the shape of clouds.
People with different personalities see EXACTLY the same thing and have two conflicting options.
That doesn't make either one wrong.
Two people often disagree because both are far to the extreme in one personality factor.
The Big Five Personality Factors (click here)
Yes lets all saddle up and climb into the head of this right wing spin addict to see what's going or not going on....bring a friend I'm sure there'll be plenty of room for everyone
golfing,
everytime you all criticize President Obama, i think about the fact that you probably voted for W. twice.
Of all the Democrat's that voted yes, How many of them have ties to the NRA? This was nothing more than a Political stunt,The gun law's in AZ are VERY lax, which is what the NRA want's, I own gun's, I do not SUPPORT the Idea's, or view's of the NRA, never have. If the AG is bound by LAW that He can't turn over Document's or discuss Secret Grand Jury hearing's or ongoing investigation's, Which ISSA is well aware of I know the 99% see's this for what it is, Simply Political.
Good question.
The only people that would want to punish Holder are the kinds of people that want to continue to provide violate Mexican law by providing more weapons.
Then I guess you want Bush and Cheney indicted since it all started while they were in office.
I do Soothe, I do, I do. Still waiting for them to try and leave the country since they are wanted by every country in the world. We are the only country who don't want them. We would give them up to some 3rd world country and let them judge them. That is a thought that makes me smile.
Lying on Ed's blog will get you banned again. Just a fact of life. What you think anyone but others like you take your posts serious what a laugh.
Waste of time we know this too will be purged from the blog when the mods ban you for being a re reg.
whom--- Why is it that you never make any sense?
Fortune magazine reveals incompetent ATF never consulted with Holder or wanted ot give guns to criminals intentionally.
Sb1070: Left=3 Right=1
Obamacare: Left=1 Right=0
Immigration: Obama popular plan, Romney no plan
Because that would require intelligence and you are found lacking in that department. Talking to you is like talking to the dog in the neighbors trash, it cocks its head, wags its tail and continues to gorge itself on garbage.
Excellent metaphor!
Perfect Whom! Two thumbs up!
Has anyone considered the possibility that there were 17 Democrats who really just want to get to the truth?
No. They're afraid they'll lose their standing in the NRA. The NRA would make trouble for them at the next election. You know, the Intimidators. Just fun-loving Repub boys.
Has anyone considered that if you want to get to the truth you should ask some agents who were involved like fortune magazine did? Come on how dumb are you?
Please explain to me why some posters on this forum can not have a discussion without name calling? The name calling is school yard tactics that only solidifies your lack of thought.
Because that is all you tea bagged republicans understand only unlike you I don't waste my time trying to be nice to people that refuse to see any other point of view then the one that they have. Here is a clue you are speaking to left leaning people who questioning everything they are told even those that go against their belief system we already looked at right leaning crap and after researching came to the conclusion it was right wing propaganda crap just a bunch of words thrown together to get an emotional reaction out of the person who listens or reads the propaganda. You righties come on Ed's blog acting like you can convince us that your propaganda is creditable when in fact it is just nonsense. Your first clue should be that every time a republican makes a speech no 2 people hear the same message why is that, simple righties only hear what they want to hear everything else is filtered out. So instead of going thru 23 posts before attacking why bother, you won't listen and it gets very boring debunking the same 5 tea bagged republican talking points day after day.
CC- are you claiming the agents know what Holder's involvement was? I would find it odd that they would, yet he would try to keep it from Congress? That's sort of a funny premise.
I guess President O is going to have to issue a pardon.
Teen age US citizens bought the guns in a gun store legally while federal agents had them under observation as a result of a court order.
Those teen agers then legally gave the guns to Mexican citizens that are suspected of being members of the Sinaloa drug cartel.
Federal agents appear to have wiretaps, video tape, photographs, and transcripts that document the transactions. These were obtained as a result of court orders, and US laws prohibit that information from being released to any other organization. The reason in this case is that public information release would endanger the life of those teen agers that broke no US laws.
That would be a death sentence for the incredibly stupid kids that bought the guns because the drug cartel would proceed to murder those kids.
As a curious republican that is loosing faith with my elected leaders, I need someone to explain to me why those murders would be a good thing?
Federal agents detained everyone, but had to let everyone go because no US laws were violated.
There was no criminal activity committed by US citizens. The murder appears to have been committed by Mexican citizens.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/
To long to post the complete story, but if you want the truth you can read it. I doubt you will however. You have only one agenda. No one has said the murders were a good thing!
@Thankful Mom-3182614,
You don't understand.
I'm on your side.
US Code 18 Chapter 119 Section 2510 indicates it is illegal to release the wiretap information, including the transcripts that are the justification for the contempt vote:
Issa is ordering Holder to violate US law.
Issa and the rest of the people that voted in favor of contempt violated the constitution.
That's called treason, and treason carries the death sentence.
Holder would be justified in arresting and detaining just over half the house of representatives.
That's how stupid this whole thing has become.
Indeed TM I believe you may be mistaken what Crack is saying is that by releasing that information to the public because of the nature of how it was acquired that it would violate the law. Also that bringing it into the public light would get those people murdered so to release them is akin in a way to handing out a death sentence and murder isn't good.
No one is referencing murders that have already happened
It's pretty clear that Issa should be censured for conduct unbecoming of a congressmen for the accusation of nefarious and illegal activity based on no evidence about the president. He has said affirmatively things which are serious crimes and that he can't prove occurred that is slanderous. Congress should vote to hold him in contempt for the waste of federal resources in political witch hunt where he has charged in session serious crimes against the AG and POTUS with no evidence or plan to reign in or retract those slanderous statements.
Course the people have already voted congress in contempt wit their 9% approval rating
I have one question, Chairman Issa how does this create jobs?
Unless Mr. Issa can substantiate his actions in filing multiple contempt charges against Mr. Holder...he has placed a stain on a man's record, and a bigger stain on Congress. History may regard Mr. Issa as a blight infecting the Capital. So then, the last laugh may be on -him.
If the appropriate measure is "How does this create jobs?", then Congress should have been told that before Obamacare was passed.
The Republicans never get tired of proving to the world that they can't be trusted and showing how low they will stoop and how underhanded they will be to get what they want.
They are targeting the Attorney General because he is investigating their purging of the voters by the Republicans.
Now that should be brought to court. There is plenty of proof.
This is all they got on Obama a failed Bush plot called Fast and Furious. Good luck making it stick.Obama in 2012 along with a majority across the board.
Pathetic isn't it. Not a question, its a statement.
Bush's little game was called "wide receiver."
‘Operation Wide Receiver’
What’s also fascinating about the documents turned over to investigators is that they reference a little-known ATF operation called “Operation Wide Receiver”, which just like “Fast and Furious,” let guns “walk” to Mexico.
The operation, run by ATF’s Tucson office and the U.S. Attorney for Arizona, started in 2006 — when George W. Bush’s Attorney General Alberto Gonzales was running the show — and ran until the end of 2007. No charges were filed.
Fast forward to 2009, when the Obama administration took over the Justice Department. The former Gang Unit inside DOJ’s Criminal Division (it later merged with the Organized Crime and Racketeering Section) reviewed the case for possible prosecution. At that time, a federal prosecutor in the unit “learned the ATF Arizona had permitted guns to be transferred to suspected gun traffickers and had not interdicted them,” according to a DOJ official.
DOJ eventually issued two indictments that grew out of the Bush-era “Wide Receiver” investigation, which were unsealed towards the end of 2010.
Before the indictments were unsealed, however, deputy assistant attorney general Jason Weinstein raised concerns about investigative methods used in the Wide Receiver case. That’s what comes up in the email.
“Do you think we should try to have Lanny [Breuer] participate in press when Fast and Furious and Laura’s Tucson [the Wide Receiver investigation] are unsealed?” Weinstein wrote in an email. “It’s a tricky case given the number of guns that have walked but is a significant set of prosecutions.”
Deputy Chief of the National Gang Unit James Trusty replied that he wasn’t sure “how much grief we get for ‘guns walking.’ It may be more like, “Finally they’re going after people who sent guns down there.”
The DOJ official said that Weinstein’s reference to the “tricky case” in which the questionable tactics were used referenced the Wide Receiver case, not Fast and Furious. “He mentioned Fast and Furious only because of his belief at the time that the cases would be announced in close proximity,” the official said.
There’s still the question of why — given how “tricky” the “Wide Receiver” case was — DOJ didn’t take any steps to ensure that ATF officials weren’t using the same types of methods. But the Republican contention that Holder or other high-level DOJ officials knew about the controversial tactics being used before the beginning of 2011? That still hasn’t been proven.
Late Update: Issa’s team responded, saying that “throwing out the ‘Bush Administration did it too defense’ reeks of desperation.”
A Justice Department spokeswoman issued a statement calling Holder’s testimony “consistent and truthful.”
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/10/wide_receiver_the_bush_administration_had_its_very_own_atf_gun_walking_scandal.php
GW is still plaguing the country and he lets others take the fall for him, the dirty little crook.
TM, So right about that ! Over and over again when will we see justice for them? I think they have now brought Bush into the picture as he stated this and he must be called to testify before congress. Its time for Eric Holder to get tough. Now if the security of this country and agents are in jeopardy charge the Republicans with everything in the book. They are the most mean spirited self serving bozos to have the privilege of destroying this country.
Actually- it isn't so much "Fast and Furious" that is in question. That program is wellknown. It is Holder's actions within it and his truthfulness that has caused him to claim exec priv allowinig him to not tell Americans what his involvement and decisions were.
Didn't Nixon claim E.P. as well? And it was used during the McCarthey era. And it was used by Bush trying to protect Cheney. Now by Obama. I'm just surprised that liberals don't mind Obama using tactics throwing him into the above company?
Every president has the right to and uses executive privelege so that's a waste of time to address
have you considered the the attorney general doesn't directly manage the ATF nor does the president? of course not it's an election year why would you think and apply things to reality
have you considered if the ATF did it that maybe they should be asked
have you ever considered that there's nothing to show there was any cover up.....because if there was how would we be talking about this now...this has happened for years...I don't know if you've noticed but the deaht of one person on the border doesn't attract much attention because of the flow of guns the GOP criticises yet refuses to try to stop. Just like the fence they don't want to have any government spending to build and the government workers to patrol it....
funny how you bitched that the constitutional obamacare was too long yet holder's given more documents than the numbers of pages in obamacare and been willing to have a private meeting with the chairman since it's illegal to give what Issa wants to the public? No of course.
It's a game you think america buys it doesn't and don't blame the left for getting side tracked from the improving economy that's coming back despite your attempts to sabotage it
They do not even know what the AG duties are and neither does Issa it appears. Holder does not direct agencies methods in the field, he checks to see if they are legal and in compliance with the laws of the country. Another misconceptions is F&F was a gun walking operation when in fact it was not the ATF was watching straw gun buyers and were trying to shut them down but they couldn't because of AZ gun laws being lax that allowed people to buy guns and then pass them onto others. If anything F&F shows just how bad lax gun laws are and really Issa and the GOP are not going to mention that so they made up the gun walking bull@!$%# so the NRA wouldn't come down on them. The gun walking program was under Gonzales's watch.
Of course they all have the right to conduct business secretly, and to use EP to keep it from becoming public. I just find it interesting that liberals are so willing to accept the company that he has put himself with.
I don't think we will have to listen to him campaigning about how open his administration has been during the next 5 months...
Yet when GWB used EP 284 times you remained silent gee how surprising.
LOL- We can always depend upon a goofy interpretaiton from you. I don't seem to remember GWB ever running on a platform of having an "open" office. Obama made a big point of campaigning as if he command in a manner that was opeen for all to see.
I also love the fact that Obama lovers hate Bush- yet every chance they get- they make comparisons showing how similar Obama is to Bush.
Oh so in your mind because GWB didn't run on an open presidency then everything GWB did was legal. Right another words just good old IOKIYAR
With the NRA and the Republicans on their side the Mexican drug cartels will enjoy a never ending supply of the latest and greatest automatic weapons, for years to come.
Congrats Repukes, once again you have sided with the Dark Side putting our agents at risks and making a mockery of our judicial system, for purely political gain.
LET ME SPEAK:
Get Involved!
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Please note:
[DOJ] would like you to know...that all incoming messages are forwarded to the appropriate organization within the Department of Justice and you can be assured that your voices and views are being heard.
-Koala
Don't know how many Democrats voted with the Republicans but if they didn't vote their convictions other than they didn't want to offend the N.R.A. then they don't need to be in Congress anyway. Their voters should remember who are the cowards.
Well the Dems that voted with them are using their heads because this will make the GOP a laughing stock when the truth comes out.Thank you Jesus!
No they won't you know how we know this very simple you are a re reg so your word is worthless as is your posts.
BHO is Golfing-
whistle in the dark
English
Verb
to whistle in the dark
I have heard it said that he is whistling past the grave yard!
Tea party republicans will continue to be laughed at the clowns they are this november and for the rest of human history. They will go done in history as a group of unreasonable extremists who refuse to take responsibility for the bush plans that put the nation out of work, the decimation of public education to help their friends make money at the expense of our future, getting the nation's credit rating lowered by trying to not raise the debt ceiling and starting two wars.
When will these idiots start blaming the GOP who were in charge of congress for 3/4 of the GW presidency where all the spending happened? Answer is never these immigrants from crazy town don't believe they have to live in actual reality. So have fun immigrating but just know there's an unforgiving electrified fence and auto defense cannons that will slaughter anyone thinking they can just hop the border back to reality and pretend they were never residents of crazy town in the first place.
The need something they think they can celebrate on since the Supreme Court handed them a big loss on health care reform this morning. And on that front, go right ahead and try that repeal road again and see how fast Romney loses since the law is based off his Massachusetts law and it will only work to expose him of having no real plan on anything. Even Michael Steele admits if you go down that road, you will have to give a credible proposal on what you will ACTUALLY DO to solve the health care issue and not just hide behind generic and empty platitudes.
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/232791-dems-decry-blatant-abuse-of-power-in-holder-contempt-vote
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/234827-house-dems-condemn-rush-to-judgment-surrounding-holder-contempt-vote
"The truth has no agenda nor knows any time
limits..."
OH please in your small minded dreams BHO.
The NRA is the guilty party, as well as Arizona gun sale Law.
Cover up of what since Fortune Magazine showed Issa and the Republicans' premise for going after Eric Holder is based on a lie?
Jajuan this guy is our old re reg friend republic who has been banned so many times its not funny if you don't want to have a few laughs at his expense before he gets banned again then just put him in ignore as he was posting the same nonsense the last time Fox news came up with fake outrage.
Whomitmay you do have a point.
BHO is Golfing- The latest clown out of the car.
Chris republic was one of those nuts who threw bricks at democrats windows in an attempt to over throw the democratic government. He found a new leader that sister molesting screw ball who terrorized rabbits in Alabama. Republic is going to Alabama next week to help him find new victims to terrorize, chipmunks.
Well lets look on the bright side atleast this dumbo is running for president.
The house will destroy itself when it's revealed, and it will happen, that the investigaton was criminally fraudulent political behavior and not even the NRA will save the corrupt criminal insider trading king Darrell Issa. Yes.
Yes they will. The party of no is long dead. The GOP will fail when it tries to start a civil war when the president is re-elected after all the facist right lies on big government they should know by their own dumba$$ logic that big government means big guns.....send the right wing terrorist to hotel Guantanamo
Well looks like he got himself deleted again
DEMOCRATS VOTING AYE:
Altmire
Barrow
Boren
Boswell
Chandler
Critz
Donnelly (IN)
Hochul
Kind
Kissell
Matheson
McIntyre
Owens
Peterson
Rahall
Ross
Walz
15 minutes ago http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120628142742AAey4kG
Eureka! This is the list* I am looking for! Thank you, "Mom". :)
Your welcome and I thank you for your post for Eric. I 'll be looking up these jerks and giving them a piece of my mind.
Want their addresses phone numbers etc.
http://www.house.gov/representatives/
And conservatives show time after time they don't have a mind to waste that was wasted at birth.
I hate the GOP ( Goof Off Party ), I would be proud to be held in comtempt of this worthless congress, as I have nothing but comtempt for them. The dems however are starting to tick me off also. What a bunch of whimps. to leave chambers & stand outside like a bunch of pre school kiddies saying " shame on you, shame on you " At least act like a man & tell them what a bunch of worthless clowns they are to the nation & to their faces. "shame on you "
REALLY????????????????????????????
Under President Obama
First Credit Rate Drop
First U.S. Attorney Found In Contempt
16 TRILLION IN NATIONAL DEBT
4 YEARS of 1 TRILLION PLUS in DEFICITS
Obamacare's Gross Costs Double to $1.76 Trillion, CBO Projects
But we know that Democrats and Liberals do not care about THAT!!!
Let's see
First Credit rate drop because the Republicans wanted to play politics with us paying for costs and obligations we already incurred and hold our whole economy hostage
First US Attorney General found in Contempt because of Republican political theater
16 Trillion in Debt most of which is due to the Bush Tax Cuts and fighting TWO wars, only one of which we should have been fighting while the other we go lied into, begun on Bush's watch
4 years of 1 Trillion structural deficits again most of which is due to two wars from Bush's watch and his tax cuts that weren't paid for
Care to try anymore Republican selective editing of recent history?
Thanks Jajuan.
Did you see how the fake noise depicted dinner with Obama.....and they didn't even bother to say it was just their sarcastic joke. Tacky! They made fun of the $5.00's dollars worth. Snobs!
Under a president Romney taxes on the middle class will increase and the debt will triple. Mitt the cowardly candidate is almost as much of a joke as you are but atleast he's smart enough to know better before he chooses to lie anyway
so much fun laughing at you right wing comedy machines
now we just need blunder woman(Michelle Bachmann) and mama moose(palin)
I hate the GOP ( Goof Off Party ), I would be proud to be held in comtempt of this worthless congress, as I have nothing but comtempt for them. The dems however are starting to tick me off also. What a bunch of whimps. to leave chambers & stand outside like a bunch of pre school kiddies saying " shame on you, shame on you " At least act like a man & tell them what a bunch of worthless clowns they are to the nation & to their faces. "shame on you "
REALLY????????????????????????????
Obamacare's Gross Costs Double to $1.76 Trillion, CBO Projects
Name a source to that statement.
Congressional Budget Office
juststatingitasitis
Obama Healthcare
NA NA NA NA
NA NA NA NA
Hey Hey Hey
GOODBYE
Lets sing it LOUD
#167 - Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:11 AM EDT
Oh you wouldn't be referencing the same CBO that says while their estimates of gross costs increase the budgetary effects that offset those costs ALSO increase, and that their ten year forecast that the Affordable Care Act REDUCES the deficit has NOT changed? Nice try but give the whole story and not cherry pick selective details.
While you are Spinning
Maybe you can Spin this Obamacare program to be Popular by the Majority Of Americans
It must be a Liberal or Democratic Trait that if you DON"T LIKE the Way something is going you take your toys and Go HOME
LMAO
That is all you will get from just, he is like his mentor GWB.
Without the brains and winning personality.
Actually, it's the Republican crime family that doesn't like the way things are going.
And if anyone wishes to read the CBO's latest forecasts on health care, I point you to www.cbo.gov/publication/43080. They don't yet have anything to say on the Supreme Court decision plays on this because obviously the decision was just made today and it will take some time to make a report. And I don't have to spin, I'm looking at the CBO's actual numbers from their most recent report on health care reform given on their website.
Jajuan! Using facts on a righty! That's like beating a child with a stick!
I had a feeling he was just pulling that tactic of saying something that's false or only partially true and passing it off as the whole truth which is why I asked him to name a source. All it took after that was going to the CBO website and doing a search on the Affordable Care Act to get their most recent reports on the law.
Maybe you can Spin this Obamacare program to be Popular by the Majority Of Americans
Spin Away
LMAO
I don't have to since the Supreme Court cleared the way for the law to take effect and have the people make their own judgments based on what they actually see and not based on Republicans playing on people's fear of change. And by the way it will take 60 votes in the Senate to repeal the law. Republicans likely won't get that. And under the scenario that President Obama is still president that goes up to 67 votes since it takes a two thirds majority of both chambers to override his obvious veto of any attempt to repeal. And it's also unlikely that Republicans will have a veto proof majority in the House which by the way is 290 members. So Obamacare as you put it is not going anywhere any time soon.
Jajuan-3383106
Thank you for being HONEST and admitting that you you can't Spin this Obamacare program to be Popular by the Majority Of Americans
But at the END of the day the Elections will be on the Economy Stupid
And next week Another Unemployment Number
Where all Signs Are that the Unemployment Number will go Up
I didn't say I couldn't spin it. I just refuse to waste further time on you since I already poked a huge hole in your lie that the CBO said the Affordable Care Act was moving toward breaking the budget territory by pointing everyone's attention to what they actually say on the issue. And notice I did it all without the need to stoop to any name calling. And yes the election will be on the economy and the President has already shown that he's not afraid to run on the front and people's eyes are opening to how Republicans are not moving to act on the jobs side of that equation while trying to run away from the fact that they LOST on the health care costs side of that equation. And I remind everyone that health care costs are one of the biggest drivers in the health of the economy, be it on the level of an American family making ends meet or the federal government in bringing down the deficit.
5 vs 4 we when you loose
Sb1070 gutted gosh you guys should read that constitution you claim to understand your legal argument are so pathetic you couldn't even win with a conservative court
the tax vision of romney will triple the debt-CBO really don't worry I'm not like when I make a claim about there estimates it's because I've seen them not just making them up
the right wants the irresponsible people with money to buy insurance to have the rest of us pay for their care, what a joke you people are
same cost for same service for women
no lifetime coverage caps, the GOP doesn't want that this means death panels. The right supports insurance company death panels. Hugely popular
young people stay on parents plans till 26 so they wouldn't be burdened with that debt and student loans.....hugely popular
no cut offs for because you lose your job so you can pay it back....hugely popular
no pre-existing condition exclusions....hugely popular
less costs for preventative care...hugely popular
reducing costs to medicaid without turning it into a voucher program to benefit insurance company profits....hugely popular
You can always tell when juststatingitasitis is getting frustrated. He starts putting everything in boldface.
It's like watching a child throw a temper tantrum.
Vote em out in NV, It occurs to me, that a walk-out is a powerful statement when used against "worthless clowns"! What you end up with is the cameras (news cycle) catching every historical playback moment.
(The mantra, 'shame...' can be cut out by anchors. - Ahem, that did get a little long-winded I must agree.) However, all is forgiven. Go Nancy P.
Now they can get back to whining and wasting time over a law that isn't in effect for 2 years. I guess jobs aren't so important to the house majority. (After all, there's fundraising to do and recess to enjoy.) Let's hope this will be their last stand before being being replaced on election day.
They are too busy in congress with their newest witch hunt.....the days of Salem live.
New idea for an MSNBC show: "Tune in to Congressional Witchhunt. Where you can watch and hear Daryl Issa softly and so coldly ask: "Dost thou confess....?!!!""
-- Be there r Be square! ---
Next comes "the Iron Maiden". The Nazi Inquisition. Starring Darrell "Viper" Issa!!
Now lets see if they pursue criminal action in court and get Holder jailed for Contempt. I wait with baited breath.
The criminal complaint goes through Mr. Holder's office. So no action will be forthcoming, because he will not "execute" it. The civil action will expire (apparently). Therefore, this is a symbolic act designed to frustrate the Administration inside the beltway, is it apparent that Mr. Issa has "purpose and principles" issues?
More grave is what does this do to the integrity of the longstanding historical federal record of this country. Now that history has recorded this act from such an esteemed and storied Congressional House-a precedent has been set. Will it happen again sooner or later?
Calbab, I guess you are right about Holder not taking action. After all if a Supreme Court Justice hearing a case she worked on as a Solicitor General refuses to recuse herself, why would Holder.
It is a little different than SCOTUS recusal from a case. President Obama ordered "executive privilege" be used in this matter. And, he is AG Holder's boss!
(I do not think the AG can be use as a proxy in this manner to execute a complaint.)
Why don't you try holding it?
What is so ironic about the Fast and Furious scandal....if ATF had actually stopped the sale of AK47's in Arizona, the same bunch of idiots on the Oversight Committee would be bitching that the Justice Department was overstepping its bounds and unfairly targeting good old boy gunshops in Phoenix trying to make a living. Stupid
Exactly. Time for the democrats to do a little work behind the scenes so they don't have the facist party stone walling and blatant lying and investigate this "investigation" and its claims and conclusions. Documents will show they knew this had nothing to do with holder, that it has nothing to do with obama, the NRA and the ALEC told them to do it to stop holder enforcing the voting rights act that tx republicans want repealed. The evidence will show Issa knew all the things he "investigated" were nothing, despite his reporting to the contrary and that they made effort to find any real answers since fortune magazine was able to get more information than they were without any legal powers that congress has.
It will be shown this was a deliberate instance of political witch hunting based on prefabricated lies by the chairman and thus is worthy of censure. Now that they've charged holder with a crime they'll have to prove and they weren't counting on that, they will bring themselves down with this vote.
Well them Kocksuckers!
No he is Koch bashing the Koch suck ups.
Mr. Holder you are in good companies. Every advocate in our history when they stand for good get to be in jail for doing what is right. The GOP wants free publicity and they abuse their power. It does not show good character.
It is up to us people, lets vote them out in November. And let repeal the contempt vote. We should take this all the way to the SCOTUS
so why is it that the DOJ gets to decided what documents to produce based on a lawful congressional request? this is a rule of law deal no more no less. DOJ does not get to decided. They can claim executive privilege- just like Nixon did- but why-to what end. Just give congress the documents and end this.
Because that is their job, they are the attorneys for the US government who over sea the actions of the law enforcement agencies and decide what is legal and what isn't legal based on the laws already in place. Funny how you never whined when the GWB DOJ over stepped and flatly ignored the laws of the land. Especially when it came to GWB illegally wire taping US citizens without warrants.