Boy, am I looking to watch scott fall on his butt with this one. ROTFFL

it is about time throw him in jail

The purge, being run by Secretary of State Ken Detzner, is intended to keep non-citizens off the voter rolls but has improperly snagged many legitimate voters. The Justice Department says that the purge violates both the Voting Rights Act and the National Voter Registration Act, but Florida officials haven’t backed down.

The ACLU suit, filed in U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida, is on behalf of two Florida residents — Murat Limage, a Haitian-American U.S. citizen, and Pamela Gomez, a Dominican-American U.S. citizen — as well as the Mi Familia Vota Education Fund. Detzner is listed as the defendant.

“The illegal program to purge eligible voters uses inaccurate information to remove eligible citizens from the voter rolls,” Howard Simon, executive director of the ACLU’s Florida affiliate, said in a statement. “It seems that Governor Scott and his Secretary of State cannot speak without hiding what they mean in political spin. They mislead Floridians by calling their illegal list purge ‘protecting citizen’s voting rights.’”

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/aclu_sues_over_florida_voter_purge.php

I guess you think any time anyone is caught in a criminal activity, they should be able to sue the "socialist government" for trying to tell them what to do! Glad I don't live in Florida...

Ah maybe because it was just robbery crime that happens every day and the prep was arrested where he will sit in jail until his day in court. What has that to do with Florida suing to purge voters, which Florida will have a hard time doing because voter purges are not allowed 90 days before an election.

Florda just wants to make a big show, and they will make themselfs look even more crazy and foolish. They are likely to try anything the Kochroaches tell them to do

To bad they decided to do it after the 90 day before an election law took effect. Boy you righties sure know nothing about the laws of the land.

What land???

The land you have your out house on of course. Oh for your own safety it is also against the law of the land to use your outhouse to bathe in, I understand you have challenges in life, just saying.

Florida. It's illegal to take people off the voting rolls 90 days or less before a fedeal election. There will be a federal election in Floirda in less than 90 days.

If they wanted to do this they should have met the filing deadline.

Stupida. The law of the US. That place you don't live. That place you lie about.

http://www.newser.com/story/147727/florida-election-supervisors-refuse-voter-purges.html

Newser) – The Tampa Bay Times today calls on Florida Gov. Rick Scott to stop the state's controversial purge of voters, but the editorial is most notable for what accompanies it: a 1963 photo of Gov. George Wallace trying to stop blacks from enrolling at the University of Alabama. It asks Scott to take note of the photo and draws a parallel: "It was wrong then to deny those students their right to a public education, and it is wrong now to use an inaccurate database that could deprive US citizens of their right to vote."

Like Wallace, Scott is using the defense of "states' rights" to defy the federal government, which already has called on the state to stop the purge. It is taking too many legitimate voters off the rolls and hitting minorities disproportionately, says the newspaper. The approach is "fatally flawed," and Scott's refusal to stop it "puts at risk the image of this state, the rights of its citizens, and your own reputation." Read the editorial in full here.

CC:

What Federal election is taking place within 90 days? If you are referring to the state primary, is that a federal election? I ask this as a serious question because I don't know.

Assuming the STATE primary is a federal election, would it not be possible for the people who are being purged to be excluded from the FEDERAL election in November which is more than 90 days away and yet still be allowed to vote in the upcoming Primary?

just saying..

It would be a good thing to correct errors. However, a significant number of the people they proposed to purge are citizens and valid voters. Their "crime" is they tend to vote for Democrats.

A state primary is not a federal election as far as I have ever been told. Then again, I don't live in Florida, so maybe I'm wrong on this subject.

In our state, we purged the rolls and issued voting permits with out photo ids in ample time for our primary election, and no one has a right to complain. They have ample time to register as well. Voter Registration is on going. It cost the state very little to do it will and all volunteer staff. Your Id is touched by the computer and your info comes up on the screen, you sign the pad and the machine issues you a ballot. No hassle. We have more Latinos than the state of florida and we are located on the border of Mexico.

Again a 5th grader in civics knows you are wrong. The primary is for the selection of the candidate running for president which makes the primary a federal election because it will be decided by all 50 states and not just Florida. You are confusing state congress primaries with federal presidential primaries. Law's can be confusing at times and you really need to understand how they work.

S.M...

I am not in favor of selective purging by either party. I do not know what the criteria is that the state used to determine who would be purged or how they came up with the list. If by chance the list is heavily slanted to one party or the other, then a review should be done.

I also don;t agree with the gerrymandering of congressional districts by either party. congressional lines should be drawn along county lines based on population.

TM...what you have described sounds like a reasonable process. It includes the use of photo ID's and a signature to insure accuracy. I would be interested in hearing more.

John:

I have googled the question and can not find a source which can give a definitive answer. Maybe someone on this board knows and will respond in a mature way with an answer. However, even if it is a federal election, how does that prevent the lists from being purged for the general election in November? It is currently outside the 90 day period that some people have mentioned. Now of course, if the Obama administration chooses not to cooperate and puts delays into the process so that it could not be accomplished prior to the cut-off, then we would be able to see that their real intent is not a fair election, but one that could possibly be shifted their way from illegal voting activity.

Just saying..

No Photo , with out Photo ID......I did take one. But it was not required because I had a voters ID. They did not care if I had a drivers permit, or a passport. My Voter ID was enough. If I had forgotten it, they would have just pulled up in their computer.

Elections for members of congress are federal because congress is in the federal government. Fact is there is one happening otherwise people who not be citing that specific regulation so obviously there is one coming up. Unless there's some vast conspiracy to just make that up and have no one who would know it's false although it would be rather obvious and easy to expose that timeline as false if that was the case........then no it's happening....if there wasn't why would the county election supervisers and DOJ be saying that the deadline had already passed?

And no you can't vote in one and then not be allowed in the other just because the second election isn't within 90 days. If they aren't eligible to vote they legally can not vote in either and if they are citizen to must be allowed to vote in both. That would not have happend had florida followed through with this half baked plan. The deadline the people contacted were expected to respond to with a scheduled formal hearing was before the date of the federal election so citizens could have been purged for the current election. Perhaps had they not rushed it past the filing deadline then that could work. If they wanted that they should have waited until after that election or long before. So no you can't pick and choose.

If th voldemort administration had not assumed guilt on the part of the voters from the start there would be no real legal issues, however they did not do that and although it seems like no big deal it is in fact quite serious under the law......the burden of proof is always on the state not the individual. The state should prove they are not elligible to vote before they decide to purge them and take their right away

I am not in favor of selective purging by either party. I do not know what the criteria is that the state used to determine who would be purged or how they came up with the list. If by chance the list is heavily slanted to one party or the other, then a review should be done.

Really have you been paying attention that seems to be the case here......that's the point

Now also there is nothing to suggest the administration put anything on hold intentionally or not. That seems to be made up by voldemort scott. More importantly aren't you the one saying it's about keeping elections fair so if they did not have the list that they say they needed to accurately do the process and have not yet received it then why did they try to go through with it in the first place if they were so concerned about doing this the right way?

My Voter ID was enough. If I had forgotten it, they would have just pulled up in their computer.

I know right. Why is it that they seem to think you can just get a ballot without showing anything in the first place. You need a form of id now! If anyone could go in and vote and not have to prove they are registered then why do we register to vote in the first? Defies logic. If that's always been legal then why register at all? Makes no sense at all. This is about whether people should have to show documents they never before have had to show in addition to what they need right now. This is about whether people should show more ID not no ID.

and people have still not shown me that the 2010 elections were fair since apparently there's all this massive fraud going around since 2008...

this is sore loser tactics from 2008......there's only voter fraud when democrats are in office for the GOP

CC;

All I did was ask the question. If it is a federal election, then it is.

You are wrong CC regarding the ID ...in all states you do not need a form of ID to vote..all you have to do is go in and give a name and an address. At least in my state that is the case.

You have to register, supposedly, to prove that you are a legal citizen of the state in which you are trying to vote. You can't just walk into a precinct because you are there on vacation and decide you want to participate in their election.

Your "logic" that because you get to vote in one election that you get to vote in the other is moronic. Are you telling me that all persons who are convicted of felonies between the two events still get to vote in the second one? Are dead people allowed to vote in the second one? If an illegal alien votes in the first one, does he have a right to vote in the second one? Yes, these are extreme examples, but they do happen.

Perhaps if the federal government had not delayed in getting this information to the state as they had requested, the purge could have been completed in a timely manner.

more dirty tricks from the Democrats in order to keep their power...

just saying..

Exactly.

and what about ALL the elections before this year? Now all the sudden the righties say there are illegals with the right to vote? Oh please......Now it is an issue and never has been in the past?

Pretty much....yeah. I too find that to be fascinating...I mean if the voter fraud was such a problem in 08 and that was 4 years ago then wouldn't it also have been a problem in 2010 since that was just two years ago? How do we know all these republican governors didn't win with illegal support after all we didn't have these voting laws then?

These neo-cons are like ground hogs on the voting issue...if they climb out of their bubble and see the shadow of a possible defeat then there will be voter fraud if not then there will be more honest elections. Lol.

I have used my drivers license for quite a few elections. why cant the rest of the people who wish to vote have a valid identification? Why is this pissing so many people off? Voting is a right no doubt, but so is getting with the program with the rest of us and showing proper i.d. You cash a check, you need an I.d., and for just about everything else. stop crying over it

Why do we need laws that serve no purpose. Funny thing is I can walk into my bank and cash a check without showing any ID and have been able to do that for a number of years. Funny how you ignore that you have to register to vote, no one walks in off the street and vote without registering first. Gee that has worked rather well for the last 60 or 70 years. So why don't you prove that the problem exists before you start making laws to prevent it. That way you don't end up screwing yourself out of your right to vote.

Bill once again like nearly the entire GOP...don't know party you're in but you're as mistaken as they are you need id to vote as it stands right now however that can include a personal bill/signed statement of validity, a student id and or voter registration crad. What these laws do is require voters to have a specific formatted ID they have never needed before introducing confusion into the system since all these new laws are different

There is no reason to make voting more difficult for voters to solve a problem you can't prove is actually such a problem. So why should they have to get a "valid" ID in the first place? Which is funny since this is about invalidating forms of ID that the voter had to show before these laws, so this "valid" is valid because you've made the previous ones invalid. This is about showing more ID not no ID. Big difference.

Please explain how this is un-American. The state has been trying for over a year to get access to federal databases in order to purge the states voter lists of people who are not legally entitled to vote.

If there is anything un-American or unethical about this, it is the delay on the part of the federal government in providing access to the information the state wants in order to protect the rights of all of the LEGAL citizens of Florida and the integrity of the electoral process.

I guess the Democrats don't believe in having an election where the LEGAL citizens are the ones who decide the outcome.

And FYI...voter purges take place on a regular basis in all state...and if they don't they should. There is no suppression involved in this process.

They only purge those that are inactive for several years. Not some one who voted in the last election and all elections before it.

Because it is illegal to purge voters 90 days before an election and Florida has a primary coming up this month make the purge illegal. Really storm stay out of drawing police attention to yourself or you could find yourself confessing to every crime in the state, just saying.

TM...I would agree that it is wrong to purge people who have not voted as long as they are legal citizens. However, just because someone voted in the previous election does not mean they did it legally. The purpose in purging the lists is not because of the fact that a person has not voted, it is so that people who are not LEGALLY eligible to vote don't vote again.

just saying

TM that is only one purge, the one Florida is doing is taking anyone off the list that might be an illegal which they will do even if that person voted last election, what makes it illegal is there is a election coming up this month which means if your name gets on the purge list you don't have time to get re registered, I been purged before and it took 21/2 months and a call to the Democratic commission to get my right to vote back before the 2008 election. I was purged because my state decided to purge everyone that had moved more then once in 2008.

And then we get storms nonsense post about the rampant illegals voting in vast numbers which has no proof of happening, but gosh darn it he knows for a fact Mexicans are swimming across the gulf of Mexico just to vote illegally in Florida. Insane, just saying.

I don't know of a law suit that get on the docket in 90 days. I do understand what they are trying to do. I was saying to storm, the fake-ness of it.

Ok TM as long as you knew there are different ways the GOP do purges, the purge was originally set up to get rid of peoples names that moved or died since the last election, the GOP has since used it to get rid of democratic voters.

They only purge those that are inactive for several years. Not some one who voted in the last election and all elections before it.

No they haven't. There are people who have voted regularly in numerous elections who had governor voldemort gotten his way would have been stripped of their registration. That's the crazy part.

Storm my dear you know florida has not been trying to get access to any lists for years. If they still have not gotten access why are they going through with the process then? Seems like this isn't about doing this right. That's just a distraction to shift the focus off the fact that hundreds of US would have denied voting elibility had the process taken place as the Voldemort's administration intended.

These voting laws across the country aren't about protecting elections since none of you can produce any evidence or stats of wide spread voter fraud. You claim it's a huge problem and is why Obama won in '08 yet that it skipped a year for 2010.....hmmm how convenient ....

This is sore loser tactics to help the 2012 election and you know that. Forgive that some of us aren't willing to believe voter fraud is such a huge problem even though you can produce no solid widespread evidence or that these laws which you admit will help republicans are done for the good of the nation instead of GOP politicians. The GOP is just playing ground hog on this...when you climb out and see the shadow of a possible loss there will be voter fraud if you don't see see a potential loss then there will be a fair elections.....

So...you are saying that what Ed is reporting is a lie? In the article above on this site, it clearly says that the state has been trying since last year...

They continue to try because it is the ethical thing to do in order to maintain the integrity of the process.

Do you want people who are not legal citizens of this country or are not legally entitled to vote to be deciding the results of this important election?

How much evidence do you need? One article says that there were over 1600 non-citizens purged from the Miami area and of that 67% of them had voted in previous elections. Since the difference in 2000 was only about 574 votes, that is a small enough margin of error to justify making sure everything is above board.

just saying....

The Department of Justice last week said the state’s purge came too late. Under a federal law commonly known called “motor voter,” state purges must end 90 days before a federal election — May 16 this year. (The Florida state primary is Aug. 14.)

DOJ also said the Voting Rights Act of 1965 required the state to get permission for the purge.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/07/2838176_p2/county-elections-chiefs-to-state.html

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/07/2838176_p2/county-elections-chiefs-to-state.html#storylink=cpy

So...you are saying that what Ed is reporting is a lie? In the article above on this site, it clearly says that the state has been trying since last year...

could care less what Ed's reporting. Voldemort wanted to do something like this last years the same way they are implementing it now but the supervisor for the state said it was not a good idea because it would be very flawed. They did it anyway and pretended they had no idea this could happen. Seems like a lie.

Considering that near 400 confirmed citizens were assumed to not be based on innaccurate and not checked evidence clearly you'd like those people to not influence the election although they have the right to. You can argue and justify in your mind for any reason you want fact is they missed the purge deadline no matter what their intentions were. The law says they can not purge if they wanted to at this point and when they started. So frankly it doesn't matter. Really if you're correct then you should be blaming governor voldemort's administration for being too incompetent to turn their work in on time.

You failed to address the "doing it any way point" no surprise. I'm interested to see your rationale that they were committed to doing this the right way as you claim.

I'm interested to watch you try to reconsile that claim with the fact that they as you claim didn't have what they needed to do this accurately and responsibly yet went on to do it anyway after they legally couldn't do a purge in the first place but of the timing

The guy who headed a company responsible for the largest medicare fraud by a company in US history is super concerned about protecting our elections...gimme a break....wake up they don't care about anyone but themselves. Maybe in norman rockwell's america politicians don't lie to help their electoral chances but hear on earth it should be assumed that in the first place

According to Ed, the state of Florida has been trying to get access to this information from the federal government since last year. Why have the feds not given it to them?

What "doing it any way point"?

182,000 illegally registered voters vs. 400 legally registered voters.

Do they 400 need to be protected and given the ability to vote...Absolutely.

Do the 182,000 illegally registered voters need to be purged...Absolutely.

How do you responsibly accomplish both goals?

just saying...

CC what it boils down to is storms hatred of illegals, that is his only point in his one track mind, say illegal and to storm there are hoards of illegals swimming the Gulf of Mexico to vote illegally in Florida just to put democrats in power. He ignores all evidence that shows there are just not that many illegals registered to vote and it is citizens who are being purged. storm is just another IOKIYAR believer.

Do they 400 need to be protected and given the ability to vote...Absolutely.

Do the 182,000 illegally registered voters need to be purged...Absolutely.

How do you responsibly accomplish both goals?

Hmm simple first step start filing and getting the provess started before a deadline who know so it's not 90 days before a federal election since you can't chanbe people's long term voter history at that point. Rick Scott didn't do that now he's whining that the department of homeland security isn't giving information well guess what you can blame anyone you want for not turning your homework on time it's still late. So first it has to be legal, imagine that.

Next it's a good idea to make sure the people your purging are in fact illegal before you put them at risk of being purged. They didn't do that either. Imagine that. The problem is they have assumed them guilty and with the laws around voting rights that makes a huge difference. Since there's the possibility citizens will be purged they can't allow that to go forward.

So when you start on time and make sure the people your purging aren't actually citizens you come out with a process that isn't a super flawed one. They choose not to o those simple things so speaks to their incompetence that they couldn't even start the process on time. That's like Chris Christy blaming the panel on those education grants a few years ago for his state's failure to complete the entire application.

and when you start the process in time and the Federal government does not allow you access to the information you need to complete the task before the deadline, what are you supposed to do?

just saying...

When you turn in your homework incomplete past the due date that's not called starting the process on time.

If this was six months earlier your argument might have weight, it isn't. Now you may be gullible enough to believe florida is at no fault here because scott wants to shift blame for this mismanagement but riddle me this. So if this is about doing the process right and you claim they did not acquire the documents they needed to do it properly why did they try to do thee purge anyway?

You have a car with no breaks and you go and drive it into a telephone pole how are you going to blame anything on the account of you didn't have what you needed to make the car safe. So it's not your fault you crashed since you didn't have breaks....spare me. If you don't have what you need to make it safe then don't drive it. Not that hard.

So you claim they needed this list to do it properly and they did not receive it so why did they move forward with it passed the deadline and how have they been able to do purges in the past since they've apparently never seen this database ever at any point? So back to reality you can't purge 90 days before a federal election, no excuses, deal with it.

If they couldn't get it done on time that means they should have started earlier, so still their fault for filing to late. Furthermore they at no point had any intention of investigating any of those names throughly before they decided none of those people were citizens. They were warned the data they planned on using was flawed you can claim what you like but if they had half a brain they can not say that they had no idea this could be problematic. So they should have planned ahead, they didn't. If the day they set up as the deadline for the purge was within the federal guidlines they would have had no problem.

Again if they need this database to do it why did they go forward anyway? Spin it anyway you want but that's poor management. Starting a process on time means finishing it by the time it's due, not after. Basic I thought you guys had a monopoly on business experience 'cuz in business when you don't do that that's called poor management and/or you're fired.

Blame it on the DHS, blame it on Obama, alcohol, Satan, George Soros......who cares but fact is this purge they attempted was fundementally flawed and so if they wanted to have that not be the case they should have put more muscle on it or not done it at all. But this was flawed, that is the fact. Live with it.

So, if the teacher tells you that you have to complete the homework, but never gives you the book which has the tasks in it, you should get an F, even if you continued to ask the teacher to give it to you? It seems to me that the teacher has some responsibility in that situation.

I never said that FL did not have some responsibility in completing the task in time, what I find incredulous is that there is a law which prevents an improperly registered person from being removed from the voter rolls less than 90 days from an election. If a person can come up and register on the day of an election (which they can do in several states), then it should be legal to remove someone in the same manner. If there is a question, give them a provisional ballot until the matter is straightened out.

If they had not moved forward and made some effort while waiting for the additional information, you whiny Democrats would be crying about how they did not wait for the information. Nothing is ever good enough for you guys..you don't want improperly registered people off the rolls because you know that they tend to vote for the free handouts that you will give them. Live with it...

just saying....

Storm glad to see you realize you competely lose this argument and so you've returned to the usual right wing bs

If Florida has done purges in the past and have never once seen the FAFE database then clearly the data isn't entirely necessary as they claim. You're claiming the reason they couldn't do it right was because they say they didn't have the list so once again if this database was so necessary why did they act without it? The 90 day is not entirely new and applies to all so this is not an unforseeable change. They knew they couldn't file this now and if they say they didn't then they're just idiots.

what florida chose not to do was start the purge and file it on time since, there was nothing stopping them since they did not need SAFE . More importantly if they had summarily judged all the names to be guilty before actually determining whether they were guilty is the heart of the problem. If this was six months ago there would be no legal problems and they would have had plenty of time for a thorough review and then determinig if they could be purged or not.

Apparently getting your $hit together on time is too hard for you on the right........just like how many GOP primary candidates couldn't get on the ballot in various states because they did not complete and turn in their paperwork on time

Rules are rules so unless you want to change it and that is changed you'll have to just live with it.

Now same day voter registration has been in most states for years and has caused no problems which is why you can never come up with any definitive proof that voter fraud is widespread and can be stopped by these new laws. Fact is voter fraud is a fraction of a percent just admit this is sore loser tactics from 08

funny you righties want to deride WI dems for the recall yet your little voting laws want to question every previous election in the country because you lost in 08....you people only talk about voter fraud when you lose or might lose which is why you can't fathom that the american people, citizens not illegals, elected Obama. Well tough there was no fruadulent victories

So when you have the definition of imcompetence you must accuse, lie and spin. You should damn well mofo no one wants illegals voting and luckily they pretty aren't so keep believing the GOP gives a damn about your little vote and not rigging the system for themselves. Keep dreaming.

If voters are to be purged they need to be investigated in some fashion that proves they are registered to vote and do not have the right to do so before any 90 deadline comes up. Florida did none of those things and they damn well could have if they put sufficient effort in. Why didn't they ask people to respond back six months ago if they care so much about doing the process right? There would have been no problems then.

admit you don't think voters should have to be proven non-citizens before government makes the same conclusion and takes away their rights if it helps the GOP

I have yet to hear what right these tea party governors have to prove that they didn't win because of illegal support since according to you fraud is such a problem

you may not believe doing things right matters but it does live with it

CC:

Obviously you support the concept of the ruling governmental party being able to manipulate the process in a manner which it benefits them the most as long as it is the Democrats. Too bad you don't believe in protecting the rights of all citizens..not just your liberal friends.

I don't know the answer to this...When was the database in question originally created? Could it be that it was not available the last time the state did a purge? could it be the state wants access to it because it is more accurate than the database that was used in the past so that the state would be more accurate in the purge?

The difference in our outlook on this matter is you are concerned about the technicality of the process and I am interested in protecting the integrity of the results. I don't disagree that if they are inside the 90 days that things can be changed, but I will argue that if someone in the federal government delayed the process in order to cause the purge not to be able to be completed, then there is a problem. Politics is an ugly game that BOTH sides play on a full time basis.

Admit it...you are only interested in keeping illegally registered people on the rolls in order to enhance the Democrats chances of winning an election. why else would you want those people to be able to vote?

It used to be that it was possible to have a civil discussion with you even though we had opposing opinions on matters. Your recent attitude shows you are nothing except another Left Wing hack spouting the same liberal BS talking points.

FRAUD is fraud. I don't care whether it is a Democrat or a Republican or a Tea Party member or a Libertarian or any other party. Any possibility of fraud needs to be eliminated from the process to insure the integrity of the election. Unfortunately, it has to be done BEFORE the election, because if you try to do it after, all types of chaos would break out if you tried to reverse an election.

just saying...

I guess this NBC station in Florida is a right wing talking point about the non-existence of fraud in Florida...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILJDudUpct0

One person in the video actually voted in 6 or 7 previous elections.

The election official says that under the 1992 Motor Voter Registration act, they are not allowed to ask for proof of citizenship when someone registers to vote.

Naw...its not possible for there to be any fraud...

just saying...

as usual, when you present facts and evidence to Democrats the only response you get back is the sounds of crickets...

just saying

dftt.

But Mom thats not fair I want to see them squirm and wiggle they are more fun to watch then frying ants with a magnifying glass.

Ok, you can pick on the smart ones.

Thank You Mom. Hey wait thats the problem I can't find any smart ones Koch brothers don't employ the smart people they are limited to the tea bagged nation, who are not very smart.

No the nut think they had it first and they don't want any of those Foreigners moving in on them, becomin citizens and getting to vote.

I think that maybe
Florida is where all the NUTS go !!!!!!

No thats arizona

That is where you are wrong. We think all citizens have the right to vote. There are many ways to purge rolls. But people need time to comply. Many residents in Florida go North during the summer months. There is a right and wrong way to do it. So why did they decide to do it the wrong way? See my post #3.10.

And johnny comes late again. Problem is that when the smoke "cleared" there is a possibility citizens would have not been able to vote. The state decided to declare all the potentials on their very flawed, and they should have known it isn't like they had no idea this could have been the case, list guilty before confirming it.

The state has to prove they're guilty the voters or the people don't have to prove they're innocence. Our law alwaus puts the burden of proof on the state not the individual. Next they missed the filing deadline for any action in the first place, they are less than 90 days before a federal election. They should have got on the ball earlier if they wanted to do this standing election law does not allow for purges at this time.

It's you on the right who presume the alleged voter fraud helps democrats. It's the left that is unconvinced by the lack of statistics or studies which support the idea that there is widespread fraud in the first place. People aren't supporting the idea it's happening in the first place since there's no real evidence.

I find it hilarious you admit that these measures would most likely not affect people who are in the republican constituency yet then say it can't possibly be about just helping GOP politicians get elected. So you expect us to believe these measures which you yourself admit would place unnecessary difficulties primarily on groups who vote democrat proposed exclusively by republicans is to help the nation and not themselves. That laughable what the politicians on both sides only give a damn about themselves not you.

Prove that illegals are voting enough to cause all the doom and gloom that you are predicting. Why is it that you tea bagging republicans just don't grasp that the punishment for the crime out weighs any gain for the person doing the crime so therefore it is illogical for anyone to risk voting illegally, especially if they are already committing an illegal action. There has to be a payoff for someone to commit a crime, you don't rob banks that have been closed why because there is nothing in them.

CC now that is how a true libertarian speaks, my hat off to you, we may not agree but you don't pander to either side.

CC:

Which is worse...50 legal citizens not being allowed to vote or 50 non-citizens being allowed to vote?

I am not implying either way...just putting it out there for a polite discussion.

just saying..

I would like to have a polite discussion about FL, but I know well how crooked that state and Katherine Harris are. My USA, Air Force vet husband, who has voted Democrat all his life and with whom I registered for the 2000 election in FL, was purged from the rolls and we never knew why except that it was random. I was a registered Republican at the time. Guess who did get to vote?

I voted for Gore with no trouble at all. Trust me, there was No reason my perfectly registered husband was stopped at the polls. None. They were randomly ridding the rolls of Democrats so GWB would win FL! Jeb was the governor at the time. They knew full well that election was going to be close.

They "tweaked" it.

India having a polite conversation with a tea bagger is like trying to have a polite converstion about anal seepage.

Which is worse...50 legal citizens not being allowed to vote or 50 non-citizens being allowed to vote?

Which is worse one guilty man going free or one innocent man being imprisoned. The law presumes innocense not guilt. If it's okay to not allow citizens to vote on the excuse it is just an accident and no big deal then pretty soon it's "oooops did you guys who don't share my opinion not get to vote" or "whoops did you guys who support my competition be denied ballots....clumsy me..."

If it's okay to violate one citizen's right then you can take away all rights from all citizens legally. Now if you support the NDAA or the patriot act you'll never be able to understand that I suspect..........

Now better question is should hundreds of thousands of voters have more difficulty to vote to stop 50 illegals? You're taking draconian measures to solve a problem you can't prove is widespread. Our leaders swear to defend the constitution from threats foreign and domestic not real and imaginary.

Why are they targetting thousands of voters to catch the small instances of fraud? Why aren't they targetting and investigating those people before trying to purge them, helps keep citizens off the lists ya know....

Consider the lessons of squid fishing......to catch a squid one must use a tightly woven net otherwise it will sqeeze through the smallest gap and escape. These laws cast a wide net and are solving nothing.

Our country is built upon the assumption of innocent until proven guilty (unless it is someone that the Democrats don't like and then it is a different story). I always think that we should err on the side of letting the guilty man go free instead of jailing an innocent man. However, that is not what we are talking about in this situation. We are talking about the rights of an entire state to hold a fair and honest election.

Your argument would make sense if your numbers were correct, unfortunately you have them somewhat reversed from the evidence that is available.

Hundreds of thousands of legal voters are not having a ore difficult time to vote in Florida. According to the article above, up to 182,000 non-citizens are being purged from the voter lists. Are there some that are actually legally entitled to vote...I am sure there are. Do we need to do everything we can to protect those citizens regardless of their race or gender...absolutely. However, with numbers that high, the integrity of the process is in question.

Your solution of waiting until after it happens to prove it is ridiculous. Lets use your thinking...This presidential election comes back down to Florida again. the candidate that wins Florida wins the election. Candidate A wins by 534 votes just as it was in 2000. Candidate A is sworn in as president. 2-3 months later, this purge is completed and there is irrefutable proof that there was election fraud by 1,100 people and that their votes went to Candidate A by a 90%-10% margin, thus changing the results of the election and who should have won. Are you telling me that you are going to agree that Candidate B should not be sworn in as president? I left names and parties out of the description because if you really want a fair electoral process, it would not matter who it is or which party it is.

You can not put the toothpaste back in the tube...

just saying..

Oh yeah right storm you are basing that on what storm as anyone who has ever dealt with police know you are guilty until proven innocent. You claim democrats are guilty but her you are again claiming that there is this huge problem of illegals voting yet you ignore that

1) the problem didn't start until this year and not in 2010

2) citizens who vote democratic are being purged

3) you are presuming that the state is proving the people on the list as illegals when fact is they are not because the number of illegals voting is very very small

4) you can't break the law by claiming there is a problem, the 1965 voters rights law says before you can purge voters you have to ask the DOJ, Scott tried getting around that by going to the DOH which refused him because he didn't ask the DOJ, Scott then decided to break the law by doing it himself but he waited to long and ran into the 90 day law.

5) you are judging the people on the list as guilty instead of innocent, because it fits your belief and racism.

Hundreds of thousands of legal voters are not having a ore difficult time to vote in Florida

I guess rolling back the number of days for early voting and subjecting people who have those old fashion good samaritan voting registration drives which had to be pre-registered and if you didn't return the forms after a much smaller amount of time you faced super high fines. Guess that won't voting the least bit difficult for anyone.....luckily that's true since a federal judge ruled to suspend some of florida's plans to do that since they have never had to ddo it before and the stats on voter fraud suggest it's not exactly necessary.

Maybe you believe having to show documents you've never had to show before to vote won't make voting harder for anyone well..........yeah please

Better make sure the people you purge aren't actually citizens clearly they didn't do that gee can't understand why you righties aren't smart enough to get that. If you want to purge someone for not being a citizen you probably should be sure they're not a citizen. Controversy. Now you'll continue to pretend voter fraud is so rampant and that I support it or want illegals to vote even you know that false and you'll continue to forget that the governor started this process legally too late. Don't like the law tough but it still stands and till such time states can't alter people's voter history ie purge 90 days before an election in the first place. As you know and perhaps may also deny there will be a federal election less 90 days from this attempte purge. They missed the boat to do anything about this in the first place so any illegal voting is on Scott's hand.

Can't start your process on time, can't get your homework done before it's due...that's the definition of incompetence and when you have the definition of incompetence you have to spread false narratives about people wanting illegals to vote although they in fact don't

You have your facts totally wrong. Very little fraud has occurred. The voter purge list is strictly to limit voting for minorities.

If people that are voting aren't legitimate registered Florida residents, it is fraud. Facts are facts. If there are blacks that aren't legitimately Florida voters, you are saying they should be allowed to vote? I don't agree.

Prove they are black people!

RUserious

So just how many illegals have voted in Florida? Maybe some facts and sources would help your "fraud" claim.

We've already seen the true numbers, but we would like to see yours. And IF it was that bad, why wait til just before and election. They've had 2 years at least.

Any person, any person, who isn't a legitimately registered voter in Florida should not be allowed to vote in any election. It seems really simple to me. Why the big deal. I am sure that Dems and Repubs are in that group. In any case, they are not legitimate voters. Clean it up now before the election.

What about those green illegals voting?????????? And what about those illegal aliens in flying saucers, they too could be voting you know.

Do they have Green Dogs?

here's what's needed. have Rubio line up all the Cubans in Florida from one town/city from one end to the other. then have him point out which Cuban he thinks might be here illegally in Florida.

if that's not enough for the count, then have Rubio line up all the registered independents from one end of the state to the other and point out which ones should be checked for legality.

if that's not enough for the count, have Rubio line up all the registered Dems and point the way.

if that's not enough for the count, have Rubio line up all the registered females in the state.

finally as a last resort if that's not enough for the count, have Rubio line all the white male registered republicans to get the needed purge count to make sure he might have a good chance to be VP.................

I don't know XXX but I have heard the grays are the dangerous ones who do weird sexual experiments on republicans. At least to the republicans that reported them to the police. Why they even chased Ross Perot around.

RU

Once again, where are the numbers and sources of all the illegal voting?

Any person, any person, who isn't a legitimately registered voter in Florida should not be allowed to vote in any election. It seems really simple to me. Why the big deal. I am sure that Dems and Repubs are in that group. In any case, they are not legitimate voters. Clean it up now before the election.

Any state shouldn't be allowed to violate the law when they choose like having a purge 90 days before a federal election. Should they be allowed to break one law to enforce another? No. Lets say you're right, then that just speaks to the incompetence of that administration how hard is it to get their homework done in time not when it's past due. So any illegals voting is on Rick Scott's head for not being able to get his job done in time like the law requires. There is no way this plays out for the man involved in the largest company medicare fraud in US history

So no matter which way you wish to spin this he's either disingenuous or incompetent

Yeah a parking ticket is not a felony last I knew.

riding a Triumph is a crime, get a motocycle.

Speaking without permission from OxyRush is a crime for anyone using ez as a nick name on a blog.

Oh yeah ez seeing as it is you it has to be a written permission slip from OxyRush signed dated and notarized by a judge, because your word around here isn't worth spit.

BTW ez, really are you like 10 years old, I mean really only a child would post nonsense like that. What next ez, you going to claim your daddy's penis is bigger then my daddy's penis or some other childish nonsense.

Whom, here is an oldy but a goody, "Triumph, Triumph made of tin, ride em out and push em in"

Again a myth Triumphs were just as good as any other motorcycle of the 30's 40's 50's 60's. Harley's were known for breaking down and leaking oil, the saying was if your Harley didn't have oil under it meant there was no oil in it. The only people that had troubles with the motorcycles of that time period were the ones who treated their cycles like they treated their cars, if you didn't take care of them then they tended to break down. The worst motorcycles I ever worked on were the Japanese cycles, every screw and bolt in the engines had a tendency to strip out after 3 or 4 removals and insertions. Machines are only as good as those who use them. My 1963 Bonneville logged over 10,000 miles a summer, I was riding to rallies in 3 states every weekend, I learned how to stop the oil leak, I turned off the automatic drive chain oiler and manually oiled the chain every 1500 miles. Some oil leaks were there by design. Like the crank case breather disc on the cam, if you cut the tube you got oil leaking under the cycle, that was why Triumphs had a rubber hose that ran from the bottom of the engine up along the rear fender so oil would go behind the cycle as you rode down the street, just some knuckle heads didn't like how the hose looked, oh yeah and if you put a T on the hose you could then save some oil by letting it go back into the oil tank. Just a fact of life all motorcycles had their problems and the trick was learning how to avoid those problems, most of which could be avoided by simple maintenance. Sorry but motorcycles are a passion of mine.

Whom you should check out Neil Peart's books if motorcycles are a passion of yours. Ghost Rider is awesome. I couldn't put it down.

Here is a wild fact for you chi, in 1918 Triumph had acetylene head lights and tail lights. Under the seat there was a charcoal unit that would create acetylene as you were riding, basically you literally were sitting on a bomb lol. Yes I have read Pearts books, the BMW I like was the 1953 R68, I took one for a test run in 1990. I'm old school motorcyclist, modern bikes are more dependable and less maintenance but half the fun of going anywhere is getting there. There is just something about riding a vintage bike long distance, but then I also tend to stay off interstates and take the secondary and back roads avoiding dirt roads, good lord those can hurt, lol. My best friend who passed away a year ago and I would get out state maps and pick out where we wanted to go then plot a course and end up getting side tracked by interesting looking roads often finding ourselves having adventures we never expected, I sure do miss him.

end up getting side tracked by interesting looking roads often finding ourselves having adventures we never expected

much like life eh?

sorry you lost your riding companion.

Thank you, chi.

Also I can see the appeal of a vintage machine vice a modern one. There is something about things that had parts made by humans that a robot manufactured device just doesn't have. Maybe it's because the tolerances are too tight on the robot made ones, but I'm sure that's only part of it.

I'm sure vintage is not everyone's cup of tea, because you have to be willing to get your hands dirty tweaking as you described on your first post. I'm not much of a gear head but I do enjoy working with my hands a great deal probably because I grew up in a family of tradesmen. This comes in handy because my girlfriend is quite adept at breaking things.

I spend a lot of my time behind a camera for my work but I enjoy doing still photography as an adjunct to my profession. I've always dreamed of renting a touring bike and just taking off with a camera and a good set of lenses in tow for six months and seeing what comes out the other end. Hopefully I will be able to do that before I get too old.

Of course it would not be an adventure unless I do it the way you did with your friend - taking the road that looks interesting as it presents itself.

Of course and you can prove illegals are voting, not that you can produce any evidence that shows illegals voting but it fits your racist beliefs. Voter ID's do not stop voter fraud because voter fraud happens so little that there is no voter fraud except in your paranoid delusional mind. Fox news said it so therefore you parrot it.