Agree !! ======= Nyuk-Nyuk-Nyuk !!!

What ? - Did RobUs/RobMe Say Something About Jobs ??? REALLY ????????? I Must've Missed It !! AGAIN ???? Does He Even Know How To Say The Word JOBS ??????

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/17/1092555/-Slapping-down-Mitt-Romney-s-job-creation-claims-yet-again

Mitt Romney (Scott Audette/Reuters)

Early in the primaries, Mitt Romney insisted he had created 100,000 jobs through his work at Bain Capital, but faced with stiff challenges to that number from his Republican primary rivals and the media, his job creation claims fell precipitously. Now, Romney is back to claiming 100,000 jobs created, fact-checkers around the nation are back to saying, wearily, "No, Mitt. You didn't. That's a lie."

Bloomberg's latest fact-check reiterates the key point that Bain Capital does not track how many jobs it creates or eliminates, for the simple reason that it doesn't give a damn. Bain is about creating more wealth for its already wealthy investors. Jobs, layoffs—workers' lives—are a largely irrelevant byproduct of that in the Bain worldview. So Romney's claims about the jobs created by his Bain work are slapdash, post-hoc inventions.

Furthermore, office supply retailer Staples accounts for 90,000 of the jobs Romney says he created, but Bain's investment in Staples was just $2 million, "a minuscule amount when compared to the firms other investments." And:

[E]ven at those investments made while Romney was at the firm, a number of people at companies bought by Bain told Bloomberg News that he had little involvement in the day-to-day operations of the companies. Rather, Romney left the oversight and daily management to his associates and executives running the businesses.

Am I the only one here starting to suffer from politics fatigue? I want this election to have been over YESTERDAY. Too much yelling, too much "spin", too much LYING. I really need a few days off from watching any political programming, because it just makes me angry and depressed, and that's not a good way for a person to live his/her life.

David H. I do understand. This has been a very long and not over yet fight. What 5 months to go we will all be stark raving mad!

wilaed has no idea about anything. He is totally out of touch! My father used to say that richer you are more humble you get, just like a mango tree. When the tree is full of beautiful Mangos it looks like it is bowing with richness! Of course, wilard would not have a clue about what humble is! Wife drives couple cadilacs! He was proud to say that!

I'm with you. I'm taking a break. The trolls don't need me to spew their hate. See you all around convention time.

DAVID H. - I know the feeling.When the Wisconsin elections were settled at only 30% of the vote counted,that's what really pissed me off about and I just changed channels for a couple of days.

If all political discourse is going to be like this, I will just tune out completely. My vote doesn't mean anything this year, living in the bluest state in the nation, Barack Obama will win by a large margin here in Vermont. Since VT only gets 3 electoral votes, Obama could get 100% of the popular vote, and only 3 people could vote on Florida, 1 for Obama and 2 for Romney, and those 2 Romney votes would effectively negate the votes of 700,000 Vermonters for Obama, where is the fairness in that?

DAVID H. - That's when they need to do away with the ELECTORAL votes and go by POPULAR vote only !!!!!!!!!

Hey I'm not giving up until I'm forced to say Sieg Heil! Or eat Wisconsin cheese!

Mac, One thing we all know well is Romney is loaded with money and he loves to flaunt it ! He says the President is out of touch, when President Obama has no problem with walking in the shoes of middle class and poor. Being a community organizer gave him wisdom that Romney can not comprehend! I tell you if they regain control we are in very big trouble. I guess thats the really big diffrence in a rich man who wants to be President and a man who grew up with out that silver spoon in his mouth!!

Here in California Obama will win but I'm not staying home because there may be a measure on the ballot to tax me. Yes, those electoral votes are a bummer.

That is why, on election night, the pundits only focus on the 17 or 18 states with the most electoral votes and ignore all the others, because politicians know it's easier to focus on those states than it is to pay attention to those states with the smallest number of electors and have to visit all 50 states.

No, we need every moment, every second, so they can see the light. Not everyone keeps up much with politics so if we can hold out. Maybe they will read, listen or see enough they know what is true. Take a vacation.

David, I hear there are no jobs, and no one has any money. Yet Last week when we took a trip to Arizona, Almost every bridge on Interstate 40 between here and Flag Staff seem to be, being replaced. That looks like a lot of jobs and infrastructure to me. The state of Arizona is spending a lot of money on their major attraction "The Grand Canyon" All the entrance roads were being revamped, and we were there in the middle of the week and not on a week end. The train comes in loaded with tourist, there are no hotels to be had unless you made reservations months ago. All the rim trails are kept in excellent condition. People seem to be spending money on gas and vacations, etc. No one seem to be hurting are complaining in all the places we went to. Go out and see what is going on for yourself.

11 states are needed to win the electoral college which requires a simple majority of 270.

California - 55
Texas - 34
New York - 31
Florida - 27
Illinois - 21
Pennsylvania - 21
Ohio - 20
Michigan - 17
Georgia - 15
New Jersey - 15
North Carolina - 15

Which gives you a total of 271 votes.

Interesting, since those seem to be the states both Obama and Romney seem to be focused on. ELEVEN states can effectively dictate the futures of the other 39. Yeah, that's fair.

It would have been more true if Romney would have said the jobs that was created and or saved at his time at Bain Capitol and it wouldn't been to hard to figure out

Just add up all the employees that Burger King, Domino's Pizza, Staples, Sealy, Dunkin Donuts, Toys R Us, and Sports Authority have

Yes these are all companies that Bain either help start or saved

I really expect the next statement from Romney will be...It smells bad and dark in here and I feel like I need to take a dump!

Oh no I feel sick I bought a $1 burger at you know where!

Romney has no plan, he will only take us back to the Bush plan which was deregulate business and let the 'market' work it out.

The market will collapse as it did in 2008 before it 'works it out'.

Let's not go back to the Bush plan.

Obama/Biden 2012

Two days ago....

XXX OOO # 1.11 - I thought I would let you know that Wisconsin cheese is actually Idaho cheese.The reason why I say that is when I used to drive long-haul for Central Refrigeration.I hauled a load of cheese from Gooding Idaho to Green Bay Wisconsin.So like I said,Wisconsin cheese is actually Idaho cheese.

Then I guess they are all really all Mr. Potato Heads instead of cheese huh?

I always wondered where they came from...I thought it was from the couch!

In reference to the poll... of course Robme's remarks were as always, complete and absolute LIES.

But what got me into the blog tonight was to correct the comments of Mr. Dyson regarding the reference he made to a passage of the Book of Mormon. I wanted to lend my knowledge and understanding of the subject to anyone who is interested, and I need to contact Mr. Dyson and fill him in on information he doesn't have... as I've heard him make the same mistake on previous occasions.

Mr. Dyson obviously has not read the complete Book of Mormon, so he does not understand that THERE ARE NO BLACK PEOPLE IN THE BOOK OF MORMON. The people being referred to in that passage and other parts of the Book of Mormon are NOT FROM AFRICA AND NOT OF NEGRO HERITAGE.

The Book of Mormon is a story of a people who came exclusively from MIDDLE EASTERN HERITAGE, specifically they were of the Tribes of Isreal. So any accusation that the Book of Mormon is espousing racism of Negro or Black people is incorrect. These people referred to in the Book of Mormon were NOT OF THE BLACK RACE.

As always, any questions are welcome.

XXX OOO - Sorry to say but potato's come from Colorado.I hauled a load of potato's ( bulk loaded in a 53' reefer van ) from Monte Vista Colorado to Houston Texas.So you are wrong on that one also.

@--D Scully---thanks for the info. So tell me why did Mitt say that when he heard on the news that his Church had finally started to accept the Black race in 1978, He had to pull over on the side of the road and weep. Was he weeping because they finally acknowledged the Black Race as being Human, or was he weeping like in saying "Oh No they didn't"? - Were his tears flowing from JOY or Pain?

Am I the only one here starting to suffer from politics fatigue?

No, I have to take a break from it too. I've cut way back on the cable and newsvine, although I can't make a clean break (yet). I know it's going to be a loooong summer and fall and I need to be prepared.

Ted I thought reefer came from California?

Swing States---Now that was funny-- Why did I give Romney the benefit of a doubt, when truth is the issue. You're right I'm sure he was lying. LOL

"I used to drive long-haul for Central Refrigeration.:

Ted I used to drive from Stevens transport TCU`s

Pilot-Ted--U guys might be related.

LOL

its my other brother form another mother.

LOL

Every time Mitt opens his mouth is another Republican lie being born.Oh and that book of Mormon stuff about Blacks being cursed is true.I have the three books of Mormon,and as a Black Man and a fairly astute person.The book says that God cursed Cain with the mark of Dark Skin as a mark put on him for the death of Abel there was no Nation of Israel at that time frame.They Israel being the Descendants of Abraham who wasn't even born yet,I heard a comedian say something pretty funny once in reference to that,saying that God had made Cain Black as punishment,and that's what the Mormons believed,further saying isn't it funny how that the White guy did it and they found a way to blame it on the Brother.Well Barack its all your fault.

speaking of Israel today marked the 45 year anniversary of them attacking the USS Liberty killing many and almost sinking her. sent over to monitor communications of all the countrys involve in the 67 war.

sorry

Hi Rachael

What Mitt was referring to was that in 1978, the revelation was received that the church could finally extend the Priesthood to Blacks, and it opened the door for the church to start sending missionaries to the black nation or those countries that are predominently of the black race.

But it wasn't that no blacks were accepted in the church before that time. There were already some people in the church who were black... in fact I had a very good friend who had come to the USA from a country in Africa and joined the church several years before that. He was just waiting for the time when he could finally be ordained with the Priesthood, and he was very happy when it happened.

You might understand this a little better if I point out that back when Jesus Christ was teaching his disciples during his own ministry, he told them to go forth and preach his gospel of Salvation after he was gone. But he instructed them that certain groups of people were to be taught the gospel before others. For example, first they were to spread his teachings to the Jews, as they were God's original chose people.

Later... they were allowed to start teaching the Gospel to those people outside the tribe of Jude, to those people that the Jews generally considered the heathen nations at that time... like the Cananites and the Palestinians, etc. This directive was given soon after the conversion of Saul on the road to Damascus who then became Paul. We then see these other groups of people being preached the gospel in many of the books of the New Testament by Paul and other apostles... ie. the Corinthians, the Galatians, the Ephesians, the Philippians, the Colossians, and the Thessalonians, etc.

Anyway, along those same lines... the members of the church believed that when the gospel was restored at the beginning of the church in the 1830s.... that the gospel should also be taught to certain groups of people in a certain order, and that Jesus Christ would reveal who and when that should occur. The church first began sending missionaries to the Gentile nations.... which are mainly the Europeans, etc.

Then they were told to teach the Indian nation or the Native Americans in both North & South America. Mormons believe that the Native peoples of the American continent are actually the descendents of the Middle Eastern people that the Book of Mormon is about. Then finally it was revealed in 1978 that it was time for the church to send missionaries to the African countries which was when the Priesthood was extended to those people also.

I hope that explains a little better what that process was all about. It had nothing to do with Mormons not thinking black people were human. It simply had to do with it being time to finally take the gospel to that group of people.... which is why I assume Mitt said he wept when he heard the news. He was saying that he was happy that the way had been opened for the gospel to be taken to those African countries.

Of course, since I wasn't there with Mitt at the time, I can't confirm that he really or sincerely wept with happiness as he claims.... since as we both know... he doesn't seem to really care about anyone except his fellow millionaires and lies about everything else. Of course, that is also a common trait among all GOP members of Congress and Senate. Anyway, I don't consider Brother Mitt a very good example of a Christian (or a member of the church), but then not many in the leadership of the GOP are good Christians either.

@Simpson

I'm not really sure what it is you think the Book of Mormon says, but I explained above in post #1.23 that the people with the "dark skin" in the Book of Mormon were not black people.

In fact, that are NO BLACK PEOPLE in the book... it is a story of people who are of Middle Eastern descent, not African descent. So the idea that they are talking about black people is a misconception.

Also Mormons do not believe Cain was made black as a punishment, so the comedian you heard was simply making a joke... not giving accurate information about what Mormon's believe. I was a member for 20 years and I do know what they believe.

@Swing States

I agree... I think most of what Mitt Robme says is what he thinks the people he's talking to at the moment want to hear. So he tells them what he thinks will gain their approval and make him sound good. But I doubt his sincerity for the most part and everything he has said as a candidate is a lie.

@Ted

Awww, come on.... there has to be some cheese that actually comes from Wisconsin and I know that some potatoes are grown in Idaho... though maybe not all.

Although.... haven't some of those Wisconsin cows moved to California... that's what the commercials said. lol Happy cows.

PILOTSHARK - Semper Fi,you let RACHAEL cut us both down like that,SHAME on you boy.I ought to throw you out of a perfectly good aircraft at 10,000' there if you don't watch it.RECON !!!!!!

Hi Skully!

These are "yes" or "no" questions as it pertains to Mormon doctrine and *all* other Christian doctrines do not support if answered "yes". These all pertain to what Mormons believe that are further along than initiates, that I can remember off the top of my head. Many theoligists that have studied this faith and come to interesting conclusions too. Even the Koran speaks of Jesus, I believe, more than it mentions Mohammad and we all know that Islam is not a Christian faith.

Were you ever told that Yahweh God is the son of a god like Elohim and one of his celestial wives? Or that God was a spirit child that became a mortal man and had to prove himself to be a good Mormon before being allowed to be God? Or that God the Father is now or ever has been a flesh and bone man? Is Yahweh God the Alpha and Omega...the Eternal and One and Only God? Or are there many other gods?

Do you recall ever being taught that God has one or more celestial wives? Were you told that Jesus, Satan and we are spirit children concieved by at least one of the celestial wives of a god?

Do you recall if Mormons are taught that a god, like Elohim, or an angel, such as Micheal, came down to Earth as the Adam with a celestial wife named Eve to create humans beings on this planet?

Was Jesus a polygamist and is he now?

Did an angel named Moroni visit Joseph Smith and lend him (or he found) some golden plates to decipher? Did Smith look into a hat with a stone in it and dictate the word of the Book of Mormon to a scribe? How did Smith interpret the tablets while looking into a hat? Was he about 18 years old when he started to do this work?

Did you ever hear that the faith teaches some Mormons will be gods in other solar systems or universes with celestial wives and have spirit children?

What is the telestial(?) afterlife?

Are Mormon elders males as young as 13?

Can you share why you left the Mormon church?

HI Kathe

Are you saying that you think all of your questions are "yes" or "no" questions as it pertains to Mormon doctrine and *all* other Christian doctrines do not support if answered "yes"? I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that, unless it is to imply that if I answer "yes" to any of the questions it confirms that Mormons aren't Christians? I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion if that is what you mean. And as far as I can see... most of these questions do require some additional explanation than just yes or no. Also... if you don't mind me asking, what religion or church do you belong to if any?

I don't mind answer your questions if it can clear up any misunderstandings you have or add to your understanding of what the LDS believe. I don't mind answering any questions anyone has if they are sincere in wanting to better understand something they've heard that they don't understand or don't know if it's true. And in most cases I've found, the information they've gotten is incorrect because it's either been misinterpreted or misunderstood or it is a completely made up lie.... which seems to be what is on most of the websites people are getting this stuff from.

My only goal has been to try to answer questions in order to clear up those misunderstandings or invalidate the lies that people have picked up on those sites that are only dedicated to spreading those lies. But I'm getting the feeling that trying to prove the LDS church to be wrong and not a Christian religion is your reason for asking these questions and that's not exactly an open or sincere way to approach this. I find it interesting that so many people seem to think they absolutely know what are and are not TRUE Christian beliefs, even with their limited understanding of what Mormons believe.

I don't know what exactly is in the Koran, as I've never read it myself... so I don't even pretend to claim I understand it or what it teaches. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon to actually find out what it teaches or is about? You are correct, Islam isn't a Christian religion... however Islam doesn't claim to be Christian so there is no reason for us to think that it is. Islam mosques don't include Christ's name on their buildings, neither do Buddist or Hindu Temples, etc.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints does claim to be a Christian religion and "tada", it even has Jesus Christ's name on it's church buildings. And all of it's teachings revolve around the gospel principals that Jesus Christ taught to his apostles and followers. I find it very presumptuous for other so called Christian churches and particularly Evangelicals to try to say that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints isn't a Christian church. What gives them the authority with their own limited knowledge, to judge that exactly? They are certainly not ALL KNOWING, like God the Father and Jesus Christ are? Isn't the final judgement of which church Jesus Christ accepts as His true church, HIS decision alone?

It's also surprising to me that Evangelicals and other churches don't seem to have problems accepting each other, all of the thousands of protestant churches as Christian... even though there are variations of doctrinal teachings among them. It's only the LDS or Mormon church that they have decided to totally discount and in many cases heap their hatred on. Mormons have experienced persecution from the time of the church's founding and even in this country where freedom of religion is a right given in the Constitution. I might point out that the church that Jesus Christ originally set up among his apostles also was persecuted at first, with the apostles finally all being killed. In fact, the Catholic church as been viewed as a cult by some in the past.. which is why they had a problem when JFK was elected. Mormons would never call a member of another church, whether Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc "not a Christian" even though they believe in slightly different doctrines. Yet other churches don't seem to have the same "Christian" attitude toward Mormons.

The thing that doesn't make alot of sense to me in view of this discussion is how the other so called Christian churches, ie, Catholic and all of the literally thousands of Protestant churches which all teach variations of Christian principals ALL consider each other Christian, since they are all so hung up on those slightly different doctrines of Mormons. When Jesus Christ was alive and forming his church on the Earth with his apostles, he didn't form thousands of different churches teaching different bits and pieces of his gospel... he formed ONE CHURCH which contained all of his gospel, all of his teachings in one religion. So how do you explain the existence of all of the thousands of churches, all claiming to be Christian yet teaching slightly different variations of Jesus Christ's gospel when Christ only created ONE church.... not thousands of different ones? Do you have an explanation for that? Because I know how and why that happened.

As for your questions.... I'll try to give you the "yes or no" answers you seem to want, and then more explanation which in most cases seems necessary to clear up your misunderstandings if that is what your true intention is.

Were you ever told that Yahweh God is the son of a god like Elohim and one of his celestial wives?

NO. The only reference I've ever heard of "Yahweh" is as a comedic routine on the Stephen Colbert show. As far as Elohim, that is supposed to be the name of God the Father or Heavenly Father... whom Jesus Christ was the only Son of in the flesh born on the earth, and whose mother in the flesh was Mary, betrothed wife of Joseph of Bethlehem.

Or that God was a spirit child that became a mortal man and had to prove himself to be a good Mormon before being allowed to be God?

Yes and No. Members of the LDS church do believe that God once was a mortal man and during his mortal existence, he perfected himself and when his mortal life was over, he was able to raise to the level or exaltation of a God. However, Mormons did not exist before that... so the part of your question about proving himself to be a good Mormon does not make sense and is incorrect. Mormon is simply a nickname that has been given to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, or LDS because of their acceptance of the Book of Mormon.

Or that God the Father is now or ever has been a flesh and bone man?

Yes, the church does believe that Heavenly Father was once born as a mortal man as I said previously, where he obtained a body of flesh and bone and now being exalted to a God has a perfected body of flesh and bone, just as we know Jesus Christ does also. (Does that give you proof that Mormons aren't Christians then, because it's a bit different from your understanding of God?) But remember that Jesus Christ's body was resurrected and he allowed his apostles to touch his physical resurrected body as proof it was flesh and bone. Luke 24: 39-40..... 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

(Why did Christ insist that his apostles touch his body as proof? Could it be that even then Christ realized that eventually there would be many who called themselves his followers, yet refused to believe that he had a physical body which was resurrected? Or do other Christian churches believe Christ has a physical body?) So Mormons believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ both have perfected physical bodies, (just as we all will eventually when we are resurrected at the Judgement day). The Holy Ghost however is the only one of the Trinity that Mormons believe is a spirit only.

Is Yahweh God the Alpha and Omega...the Eternal and One and Only God? Or are there many other gods?

Again, I've only heard "Yahweh" mentioned in Colbert show routines. Does your church believe in this Yahweh God? The LDS church believes God the Father and Jesus Christ are the Alpha and Omega, the Eternal and One and Only God of our Universe. God the Father and Jesus Christ are the only beings that we are supposed to worship as God. As far as there being "other gods", there probably are other Gods of other universes, but they are not OUR GOD and are unknown to us... and of course, Heavenly Father has commanded that we put no other Gods before Him. Right? So whether or not there are other gods is of no consequence to us.

Frankly, that question is sort of like asking, Is there other intelligent life in the universe? I believe there is other life in the universe, but most likely not in our Solar System as Earth seems to be the only planet in our solar system that can sustain life. But the entire Universe doesn't just consist of our little solar system.... scientists have discovered that there are many other solar systems in the universe. So if we look at it in those terms, if God created the Universe and our solar system, then it makes sense that he also created those other solar systems besides ours. In those other solar systems, it would make sense that he created planets very much like our Earth, which are able to sustain human life in those other solar systems.

And just as an aside, it would make sense that he also sent others of his spirit children to those Earths, just as he sent us to this Earth. And those people on those other Earths also worship Him as their God, just as we do. They were also created in His image, so I believe they look very similar to us... so not little green men or monsters as aliens are usually portrayed.

What do you think of that theory? I don't know if that seems totally off the wall to you or not, or whether you believe in other intelligent life outside of Earth or not. I've developed that theory based on what I've been taught of God's creation of the Universe and everything that is in them, and what science has discovered of the universe.

Anyway I will give you a chance to digest some of that and continue answering your other questions in another post, as this one has gotten quite long.

Kathe... more answers to your questions.

Do you recall ever being taught that God has one or more celestial wives? Were you told that Jesus, Satan and we are spirit children concieved by at least one of the celestial wives of a god?

Yes, Mormons believe that God has a wife or wives, who are Goddesses by the way. They believe that in the Pre-existent life before we were born on Earth, we were spirit children of our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. Jesus and Lucifer were our older brothers, and Jesus was chosen as the favored son to carry out the plan of Salvation. Because his plan was not chosen, Lucifer rebelled and convinced a number of those pre-existent spirits to follow him, and as a result Heavenly Father cast them out and without the opportunity to be born on Earth and obtain physical bodies.

Do you recall if Mormons are taught that a god, like Elohim, or an angel, such as Micheal, came down to Earth as the Adam with a celestial wife named Eve to create humans beings on this planet?

Your question above is a bit confusing and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. Of course, we are told in the Old Testament that Adam and Eve were the first humans sent to live on Earth, and they are known to be the first parents from which mankind sprang forth. I do think I remember something about Micheal the ArcAngel being given the privilege of being the first man... so he came to Earth as Adam.

Was Jesus a polygamist and is he now?

I don't know anything about how many wives Jesus has in Heaven, and as far as I know the LDS church doesn't have a particular belief or teaching about that. They do believe that Jesus was married here on Earth and most likely his wife was Mary Magdalene. They are portrayed in the bible as having a particularly close relationship as a man and woman that would have been inappropriately intimate between a Rabbi and mere follower at that time and place in history. Also... Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene before anyone else after his resurrection, which indicates a special relationship. Also when she realized it was him at the tomb, she tried to embrace him which would also have been inappropriate in that culture unless there was an intimate relationship such as marriage between them. So if you know anything about the culture of that time, the signs are there of a close relationship that indicates marriage. (As a note: Most Christian religions seem to think that Mary Magdalene was the same woman who was taken in adultery and who the Pharisees were going to stone until Jesus rebuked them. But that is not true.... Mary Magdalene was the woman who had been possessed and Jesus cast out the evil spirit from her and healed her.)

The only other reference I have to Jesus having many wives is the fact that the Nuns of the Catholic church take vows of marriage to Jesus Christ, and become his spiritual wives. So does that mean that the Catholic church accepts that Jesus Christ practices polygamy?

Did an angel named Moroni visit Joseph Smith and lend him (or he found) some golden plates to decipher?

The LDS church does believe that the Angel Moroni, who was the son of Mormon by the way, told Joseph Smith where to find the gold plate from which he translated the Book of Mormon.

Did Smith look into a hat with a stone in it and dictate the word of the Book of Mormon to a scribe? How did Smith interpret the tablets while looking into a hat?

I don't remember anything about a stone in a hat, but he is said to have been given some sort of tool along with the gold plates, which helped him translate them into English. And I believe he did have someone else who transcribed what he interpreted. This interpretation tool was called the Urim and Thummum or something like that, but I don't remember what it was exactly or how it was used.

I did some research and found more info about the Urim and Thummim. It is a Hebrew term that means Lights and Perfections. An instrument prepared of God to assist man in obtaining revelation from the Lord and in translating languages. Using a Urim and Thummim is the special prerogative of a seer, and there are numerous mentions of it throughout the Old Testament. See Ex. 28:30; Lev. 8:8; Num. 27:21; Deut. 33:8; 1 Sam. 28:6; Ezra 2:63; Neh. 7:65.... here are a few of those references.

Samuel 28: 6 "And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets." Ezra 2:63 (Neh. 7:65) "And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.

Was he about 18 years old when he started to do this work?"

Joseph Smith was actually 14 when he first prayed to know which of the many different churches he should join. That is when he claimed to have received his first vision of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. It was at that time he was told to join none of the churches as they only resembled Christ's church. He was told the other churches taught bits and pieces of the gospel but did not have the complete fullness of the gospel as Christ had laid out to his apostles in his original church. That many of the truths of the gospel that Jesus taught had been lost over the centuries and especially during the Dark Ages.

Anyway, it was a number of years later after he had become an adult, when Moroni came to him and told him where to find the plates and directed him to translate them. I don't remember exactly when, he might have been somewhere between 18 to 21. It's been a long while since I read any of the church history. But I do remember that it was after he translated the plates and published the Book of Mormon that he founded the church in sometime in 1830.

Did you ever hear that the faith teaches some Mormons will be gods in other solar systems or universes with celestial wives and have spirit children?

The church teaches that those who are the most faithful followers of Christ's teachings and strive to perfect themselves in this mortal life will attain the highest levels of God's kingdom and may become Gods themselves, just as Heavenly Father did before them. In fact, there are even references in the Bible about man's potential to become Gods and how to do so... which are obviously ignored by all the other Christian churches.

For example, in Psalm 82: 6.... "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Jesus reminded the Pharisees of man's potential to become Gods in John 10:34-35.... when the Pharisees got angry with Jesus and accused him of blasphemy because he claimed to be the Son of God. 34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" 35 "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;"

Then in Matthew 5:48.... "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." If becoming perfect is how Heavenly Father became a God, then Jesus Christ also attained Godhood by being perfect. It would follow that we also can attain the same stature through perfection, which is why Jesus tells us to be perfect also. But of course, perfection is a hard ideal to achieve, so not many will attain that position I dare say.

What is the telestial(?) afterlife?

The telestial refers to the lowest level or sphere of the degrees of glory. The telestial is also the Earthly sphere I think... so Mormons believe we are living in the telestial sphere right now. As it is also the lowest sphere of God's glory, it is believed to be where the most disobedient people will live after the Judgement. Right here on good old Terra Firma. There are higher spheres of glory for more obedient and the most obedient, the terrestial and celestial kingdoms. They are also mentioned in the Bible. In 1st Corinthians 15: 40-41.... 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. Jesus also says in John 14:2..... "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." This is also interpreted in the church as a reference to the different degrees of glory in Heaven.

Are Mormon elders males as young as 13?

NO, there are 2 levels of Priesthood in the church, just as there was anciently. The lower level Priesthood is the Aaronic Priesthood.... like the Priesthood first given to the Jews during the time of Moses. It is called the Aaronic Priesthood, named after Aaron, the brother of Moses who was the first ordained as a Priest. There are numerous mentions of the Aaronic Priesthood in the Old Testament, one of which is in Numbers, Chapter 3. Within the church, boys are ordained to the Aaronic priesthood or lower priesthood at age 12 when they become Deacons, at age 14 they become Teachers, and at age 14 they become Priests. They have various duties at each of those levels of the lower priesthood such as preparing the Sacrament during worship meetings, passing the Sacrament to the congregation, etc.

It is only when males reach the age of 18, that they can be ordained into the Higher Priesthood or Melchizedek Priesthood, and that is when they become an Elder. The Melchizedek Priesthood is also mentioned numerous times in the Old and New Testaments and was named after the first to be ordained to the Higher Priesthood, Melchizedek. Such as in Genesis 14:18.... "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God." Another reference is in Psalms 110:4.... "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."

Some references to the higher priesthood in the New Testament are: Hebrews 5:6 "As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec." and same book and chapter, verse 10... "Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec." There is also a detailed description of the priesthood of Melchizedek in Hebrews Chapter 7. Elders have duties of the higher priesthood such as preaching the Gospel as Missionaries and later serving in other offices in the church such as Bishop, Branch President, Stake President, and other higher offices in the leadership of the church such as a Seventy or Apostle.

Can you share why you left the Mormon church?

Actually I was asked that question a couple of weeks ago by someone, maybe it was Rachael... I can't remember for sure. I posted a fairly long response then as there were number of reasons for my leaving the church, and it wasn't a simple decision. I'll have to see if I can find that previous post. If so, I'll repost it.

Oops... I noticed I accidently put in the same age for boys in the church being ordained as Teachers and Priests.

Correction: ... at age 14 they become Teachers, and at age 16 they become Priests.

Kathe,

I found the post about why I left the church, but it was Elizabeth that had asked me about that back on May 18, not Rachael as I mentioned. Here is what I told her....

My leaving the church was sort of a progressive thing and happened almost without me really planning it. I don't know how other religions or churches are, but being an active LDS member is almost all consuming. A good deal of your time is spent in church meetings on Sundays or church associated auxiliary activities during the week. Then in your personal time you are encouraged to have daily scripture study, family and personal prayer, etc.

After so many years of such an endless flurry of activity.... I was finally feeling tired and bit discouraged with my situation in life. Dreams unfulfilled and goals still unaccomplished, and most important... I really felt out of place as a single woman without children. The church is very marriage and family oriented and if you don't fall into those categories... it's easy to feel like an odd man out.

So when I started a new career as a speech therapist about 10 years ago and decided to go back to school to work on my Master's degree... it was easy to use that as an excuse for not having the time to regularly attend church meetings anymore, etc. Then I moved to a different area for a new job and only had rare or little contact with the church.. when I wanted to. When I moved again to another area for a new job, I didn't bother to contact the church in that area at all.

After several years of little to no participation in the church, I found that I didn't miss it and felt a lot less pressure personally to measure up to a standard the church sets to strive for personal perfection. I also felt more free to express my more liberal political views... which are generally not accepted by those in the church. I sometimes wonder how Harry Reid deals with being known as the Democratic Senate Leader in his local ward.

I had virtually severed all physical ties with the church, by simply not attending or contacting the local church in my new areas when I moved. But I think what finally caused me to decide to sever my spiritual ties or my belief in the church was during the campaign against Prop 8. I didn't like the lengths the church went to or became involved in during that campaign against Gay marriage in California.

I could understand to some extent the church's reasons for opposing gay marriage, as they view the gay lifestyle as a sin.... though I don't agree. But I didn't like the lies that were being told in the ads against gay marriage in their efforts to overturn it. If they felt they were really in the right to oppose gay marriage on the basis that they believe it is against God's law... then that should have been the only argument they should have made.

But instead they came out with the typical lies that we hear from the GOP... such as that gay marriage would somehow interfere with heterosexual marriage, or that schools would be mandated to teach the homosexual lifestyle, or that churches would be forced to marry gays against their religious convictions. I had discussions with friends in the church, who also argued these points... but I knew they weren't true and made no sense.

I decided that if the church had to lie to gain support and influence voters to their point of view, then I could no longer believe they were in the right. And that would have been true for any church who used the same tactics. At the very least, a church should be honest in their positions and shouldn't have to resort to lies. Unfortunately... in conforming themselves over the years to the conservative views of the country, the church has strayed far from it's original socialist roots and organization that was originally set up by Joseph Smith.

I feel the same about Mutt Robme... I'm disgusted and disappointed that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie and he's such a bad example of a Christian. I realize that he is just repeating all of the same lies and talking points needed to appeal to the GOP base. But he has proven by his willingness to tell anyone anything to get their vote that he doesn't have any real convictions of his own. That along with his being completely out of touch with average Americans, and adopting the radical policies of the far right make him completely unacceptable.

Hi Skully!

Thanks for the response....I really appreciate it. Those were only a few questions that I could think of when I posted and not trying to give the 3rd degree....seems I ruffled some feathers....did not intend to. I took you up on your offer to answer questions about Mormon and what the faith believes in. After the question about Jesus being a polygamist, I meant to qualify that the rest were just questions about the basics of Mormon beginnings and structure and forgot to do that. A couple of them can't be answered "yes" or "no" since they were more like essay questions. <s>

I have been interested in the Mormon faith since I was little when my Dad would debate the missionary elders who came to the door. He did the same with the Jehovah's Witnesses, who I studied with for a few months before I was married. I enjoy talking with the Mormons when they walk up to me on the street or come to my door. Since Romney and Huntsman entered the GOP race, I've picked up on my research again. I can promise that I have used friendly and/or benign sources to research like mormon.org, fairmormon.org, answers from current Mormons about what is their doctrine, theologians opinions and no resource from "hate-Mormon" groups anywhere. In fact for a few months, I haven't been using Latter Day Aints but, want to get back to that source. There's a mountain of documents written by people of all faiths to read....I may get through a shovel full if I'm lucky. It won't be my career. <s>

I'm a life long Evangelical (before some Baptists, Methodists and Catholics fessed up to being part of this group) and a confirmed member of the Free Methodist Church. Go figure. <s> I know intimately how ECC's can be....been around them all of my life. Many are kind and many are harshly judgemental to the point of hate. They think they are the "only ones" that know anything about being Christian. There are over 16,000 different "Pentecostal" religions alone with different doctrine. I went to Baptist Churches for a bit after the death of my 4 year old brother and the people I knew were nothing like what I hear now. There are an awful lot of hateful, politically motivated, un-spiritual "Christian" groups that have been on TV and I'm appalled at the things that they teach.

Now I can't say who is correct about any religious doctrines. I know what I believe and that it evolves when I'm open to receive a revelation. Maybe the Mormons have it right. Maybe the Budhists or Hindus. But what I can say is that there are basic beliefs about the nature of God that all Christian faiths have in common. Mormon is different in these fundamentals....the name Jesus Christ in the formal name does not convince me otherwise. And that's fine. God will sort it out in the end.

One more thing....were there pre-existent spirits that didn't choose a side with Jesus or with Satan for the plan of salvation as far as you know? What became of them? Did they get human bodies? If they did, were their characteristics a little different or the same from the ones that followed Jesus?

SEN - Romney doesn't KNOW how to tell the truth,even if his life depended on it I still wouldn't believe him.

I just heard the fat jaws blowing Christi of NJ putting all the blame on Obama. He rejected the tunnel plan that would have added hundreds of jobs in his state, and what did he do? He still used the stimulus money, and now complanis about stimulus! What a hypocrate!

What are the Republicans complaining about? Everyone of their jobs bills requires the firing of City, state and FEDERAL employees. That means city police officers, fire fighters, bookkeepers, librarians, state police officers, firefighters, highway workers, Federal police officers, bookkeepers, firefighters, career service personnel. Republicans don't want to fund them so they have to fired. What does that do? It INCREASES the unemployment rate

CHUCK - What they don't seem to realize is that sooner or later you will need them no matter what.If they think they could outsource those jobs,THEY'RE FULL OF $HIT !!!!!!!

@Ted

Full of Mitt (pun intended).

ETHELOUISE - Sorry to correct you but it's full of sMITT.

Ted 2.1 : I agree. There should be a law about lying during campaigning to be punishable, only then it will stop.

And Barrett is the new Gov of WI!!! He won in a landslide! Now all we need to do is arrest Romney, outlaw the Republican party and declare a one party state with Ed Schultz as Propaganda Minister. Remember, Obama had the lowest rate of Government spending on any President since FDR (if you don't count all of 2009 and half the deficit he has created by his administration). Lies, what Lies. There is only one truth - the Divinity of Obama - all else are Lies. Declare all other thought enemies of the State - Long Live the Wisconsin Union Recall Revolution and Occupy Wall Street!!! I just tried the Kool-Aid and I love it!!!

You are pathetic Mazza. All you do is call people names. Put your mother's photo in place of yours so people will think it is her talking.. That is COWARDICE!!!!

You want someone who does not tell the truth. Take a look at you messiah president. The only president ever to be called a liar out loud during a major speech. He lied so many times with his campaign promises, I cannot even begin to list them.

Put your photo on there big boy. Lets see what you look like instead of putting your mother's photo and then trash talking like you do.

johnny you are the COWARD here! dont see a picture of you keyboard tough guy COWARD!

and this is not the first time, think you might be a stalker TROLL!

gee 17 hours after she post as well what a man your not!

Johnny it is

not

nice

to

attact

a

person

on

the sight.

If you don't

like what

she write

disagree.....no need to insult her.

Man ? = Man ?? You Mean WORM !!!!

MD/MI , The more Rob me talks and attack adds they hurl the sicker i get of him! He reminds me of a Rich Snob, who thinks he is better than anyone else. You know the kind that thumb there nose at anyone they think is not in the Romney Fat Cats Club!

Pammy - Pammy - Pammy - How can You Say That About This GOD of A Worm ?? Ha haaa - You Have Definitely Nailed Him In Your Description !!! You Got It - You Go With It Young Lady !!!!!

MD/MI well tank you very much ! LOL I like your worm term as well. Vultures and Maggots . Those that would profit off the middle class and poor are just that!

Have you heard of the protest in PA? There is a community that are being strong armed by oil community to leave there homes so that they can have the water there for Fracking. I hope the news starts covering this story because Fracking and there dirty deeds need to be exposed!!!! If they can pull it there it can happen any where !!!!!

" He reminds me of a Rich Snob, who thinks he is better than anyone else. You know the kind that thumb there nose at anyone they think is not in the Romney Fat Cats Club!"

Pam he does have one of those keys to the magic underwear draw and all.

LOL

MD/MI,PAM - Now ,now children.You shouldn't be that nice to sMITT ROMNEY.I will let you cut him down more than that.

Pilotshark, Maybe you know ? What is the purpose of the Magic Underpants and if he is elected will they have to have Presidential seal on them? LOL I am punch drunk it has been long day and I am so sick of Romney's blarney that i could scream!

TED , how are you?I tell you it has been a week of the chickens here. We have put logs all around the Chicken House, just new nothing could get in. Well this morning i went to let them out and one chicken i had to keep caged for awhile was gone , nothing left but pile feathers. Well this evening my husband goes to put them up and on top of chicken house 3 Raccoons. He got one and we know at least 3 more are up there. They would killed all chickens if not for door on chicken house. What a day! Romney's constant spewing of his daily propaganda makes me sick!

PAM - You're not the only one SICK of this crap.

TED, I think the ones that support him have there hearing aids turned off or spuds growing in there ears. Constantly we here his holier than thou i am the one sent to save you and all the baloney that goes with it. I know a fake when i see one and that man is any many ways a worse candidate for President than GW . My lord did i actually say that? But truly Romney will decimate America in a way Bush never dreamed of. He will be the President from hell!!!! I had hoped America had woke up but after Wisconsin i don"t think so!

All true. My mouse is not working correctly it does not let me vote. No, I think I was required to comment first.

The sole advantage of power is that you can do more good.

From the Art Of Worldly Wisdom. Unfortunately, the GOP does not know how to do good, and their base accepts everything their leaders dish out.

You just decribed Barack Obama steve....to the letter. How does that make you feel?

TED, I totally agree with you. He may be wearing sheep's clothing to fool those that would vote for him but he is still a wolf underneath. Romney will never walk away from 4 deferments from Vietnam and i have no use for him!

PAM - Did you hear his statement where he doesn't care about sending someone off to war as long as it's no-one from his family has to go and fight in it ? That's where I call BULL$HIT on him and tell him "if you start it,you WILL be on the front line whether you like it or not !!!!!! ".That ought to change his attitude about it real fast.

TED, I did not hear that . His comment of his boys don't have serve because there helping him made me want to throw up! This man would be the worst commander and Chief to ever be over our arm forces. He is Yellow as can be and when a man who would send those to war says this well it makes me see red and my blood boil!

PAM - I heard that on CNN and when I heard it,I would LOVE to throw him out of a perfectly good aircraft at 10,000' WITHOUT a parachute.

TED, How can anyone from what ever party vote for a man like that? His sons are privileged and he has no problem if your child dies ! I lost a fiance , almost lost my brother there and he is the rich boy who his Church kept him from Vietnam , I wish to hell all those that died and all those who came home could got special deferments. He can never relate to a soldier of Vietnam!

PAM - At the time of VIETNAM,I was in grade school but my dad did 4 tours of duty over there.I was in Beirut Lebanon whe the MARINE CORPS barracks were bombed ( I was on the 3rd floor when the terrorist hit ) in 1983 and buried alive for a week.I don't think sMITT ROMNET could handle that let alone BOOT CAMP.

Ted...

Please provide a link to that comment...

TED , Thank you for your service and by the grace of God you are still here. That had to be so frightening. I think many of us take great offence in what Romney stands for and the words that come out of his mouth. I think you know my story with Military ? There are many who can not understand the connection the military have to one another. You hurt one of us you hurt all of us. It is a bond forged in steel. The friendships last a life time. Your father went through so much, all the Vietnam veterans were thrown into hell on earth when they were sent to Nam.

Stevie...

Johnny will say anything just to get you riled up...I ignore him.

You are right Sheila.....if Obama had done the things he has and I was on his team...I would be riled up too. All some of us do on this blog is state the facts...we don't call people nasty names. Just give our opinions and what we believe to be true and factual.

Steve mad the remark that Mitt Romney made the worst remark and that he was a "freaking" liar.

All I said was those remarks sounded like he was describing Obama. Does that get you riled up Sheila?

Did Tuesday night rile you up Sheila?

Did the egg on Ed, Rachel, Larence, and Chris' face rile you up?

Does the failed policies of Obama rile you up?

Does the fact he said we are all fine rile you up?

I believe all of that does rile you up and much much more.

But one thing is true, you cannot ignore me....just like I cannot ignore you.

Wow...imagine that...another Lefty makes an outrageous accusation and never provides any proof to back up their statement.

Just saying..

Hi xxx!

Then there's the Do Nothing Wealthy (aka idle rich). Instead of jump starting the economy, they hoard. So individuals must do the work of creating jobs only? Then the mega-corporations can profit? They don't want the Government to stimulate the economy, yet won't lift a finger to do it themselves. The new private sector at "work". Romney supports this plan. We know Obama does not!

Instead of buying what the wealthy used to, they buy polititicians who will keep giving them more and more handouts. It's called corporate welfare. The "right" says they pay more in taxes. They don't want to face the fact that the middle class pays more proportionately and the wealthy pay us back the money that they didn't earn yet only point fingers at the poor.

Romney's remarks about the status of jobs and the economy have always been out of a fairy tale book. The minions are under the influence of fairy dust and dance to the r/tp beat. What's in that stuff anyway?

Its a toxic brew of mouth of Newt, eye of FOX, mouth of Limbaugh,pledge of Nordquist...all put into a TEA BAG and then introduced into a CROCK of $h!t

xxx ooo - Is that all there is ? You mean there isn't anything else added to it ?

Go right ahead and add to the list................................................

xxx ooo - Since you said add,you forgot a dab of PERRYwinle,a stalk of CAIN,a few roots of BUSH ( what kind,your choice ),and a HUNTSMANs curse.

Hows that,or should there be anymore added to it ?

Ok but Oops you put in too much Perry!

XXX OOO - Too much ? NAAAAHHHH,not enough by my standards.

You can type it in! John!!!

So - What You are stating Is That You are Screwed Up - Rite !!!! I Mean - You are Admitting To It Rite ??

MD/MI: I love your answer. It is so witty. Congrats.

Nyuk-Nyuk-Nyuk !!!! === he he heee !!!

MD I think you saw the Three Stooges Boehner Ryan & McConnell!

so Cantor gets to be Shep? as to skinny to be Joe.

Indeed he's a JEW!!! And someone has to be the Shemp herder!

OMG what are the Tea Party(FAKE) people gonna do when they find out CANTOR is a JEW!!!And not living in the homeland!!!!

Everyone please remember the last time we elected/seleced a businessman/draft dodger for President. The economy went in the tank and we had two regime change wars.

OK !!!

Unfortunaly the only way to shut up the bozo is to vote him out. When ever that is.

I bet murqus99 would probably send Eric Cantor to a Concentration Camp. Please have some class and respect a persons religion. You may disagree with an individual, but what has his religion got to do with it? I do not understand why this blog allows individuals to denigrate a person regardless of Party. There are plenty of decent Jewish people who are in the Democratic party and most of you would resent anybody using the kind of language that was used by marqus99.

ROBERT - Wouldn't GITMO be much easier ? Just throw him in with the general population there and they will take care of him.

RACHAEL - I wouldn't mind it one bit if the election was tomorrow.

Hey ted--how r u?

The price of fertiliser has just dropped. Due to a glut in the market....

RACHAEL - Got a thunderstorm brewing outside right now.I might have to shut down if it does actually happen.

23mill out of a job everything is fine lol

Wi. is fine now come Nov. the US will be fine maybe Osama will take EdShultz or R achel Maddow time slot its only fair

Rachael, are you talking about BSNBC? Everything you just said about Fox goes triple for BSNBC. Don't you agree? You know you do.

MARY ELLEN - I would ACCIDENTALLY ON PURPOSE take a wrong turn if I was the one driving the fire truck.

What fire? Oops we got cut backs and it was the driver that they cut...

And if it's volenteers, there is nothing says they have to do anything but "contain" the fire to protect other buildings.

Mitts probably has his own fire truck,with a ladder that goes up&down.

He had his own cop uniform and badge lurking at night and actually pulling people over. That's not a prank....that's creepy. Why not a truck and ladder? He goes up and down like a yo-yo. Yes, I'm for it....no, I'm against it...yes, I'm against it....no, I"m for it....whatever it was that I said, I stand by it. What a yutz.

iNDEED! What will we hear next a car escalator...two one up one down! How could anyone vote for this.....what ever it is! MISTAKE

The fireman would probably become cheerleaders,

"Let it burn..Let it burn...and pray Romney is in it.." let the worm shriek and swivel.

Who gave you that idea Edward. What are you smoking?

Romney has never said that. Where do you get this crap? Doesn't care about teachers, police, or firemen. What an stupid remark.

That statement just shows how stupid, goofy, leftie, just plan dumb you are. I am getting sick of you Ed heads just repeating what he says.

You don't even think for yourselves. This is making me sick....going to work.

We have and he has no clear answer as of yet. Maybe he is saving it, like he is his tax returns.

AZDAVE - A tax break he DOESN'T deserve and shouldn't get one in my opinion.