"I suppose you feel the CEO's DO deserve the millions of dollars in increased wages because THEY'VE done so much for America?"

Nope, when it comes to the company I work for, I want the guy who makes any of the decisions that can affect millions of dollars and hundreds of jobs to be made by a guy making minimum wage just like the janitor.

when it comes to the company I work for, I want the guy who makes any of the decisions that can affect millions of dollars and hundreds of jobs to be made by a guy making minimum wage just like the janitor.

Let me guess..you're not doing very well at that company.

I suppose you feel the CEO's DO deserve the millions of dollars in increased wages because THEY'VE done so much for America? How absurd. If you're not one of those 10 million-a-year vultures, then you better get a friend to let you know when to come in out of the rain!

Just meaningless straw man arguments by the tea bagging apologists for the CEO's.

Yes examples like the late Apples Steve Jobs and Facebooks Mark Zuckerburg deserve every penny they earn

You create something that people want and you also can reap the rewards

Funny how no one could disprove my theory, but could only throw mud. I guess I am right.

Theory that is not theory what you got is a bunch of talking points nonsense and excuses when reality states wages have flat lined since 1973. The day storm is right will be the day the sun explodes and takes out the Milky way galaxy.

Storm- Only someone who absolutely refuses to think for herself would suggest otherwise. The divergance of the trends and the advent of the personal computer are almost exact. Look to spending on technology plus labor- guess what- it will equal productivity. Basic econ 101. Of course, some people flunk that class. They go into rhetoric because it requires only words, not thinking or facts.

Or in other words a tea bagging republicans suffering from delusions of grandeur. Where did the tea bagging republicans sit in the class room, why in the corner wearing a traffic cone hat with dunce on the front.

watsonelizabeth@yahoo.com

Yes examples like the late Apples Steve Jobs and Facebooks Mark Zuckerburg deserve every penny they earn

You create something that people want and you also can reap the rewards

Even Jobs and Gates would tell you they didn't create their products. They just used other people's technology.

Still...only mud slinging, nothing to disprove me.

So stormy

Then the CEOs don't deserve more either. Yet they're getting ever increasing ridiculous annual compensation. I'm sure you'll defend that as well. Then next month you'll complain that you're cable bill is too high. With cable company CEOs getting 10's of millions per year while the average worker has seen little increase.

Fore...the discussion is not about the CEO's and their compensation, it is about productivity vs compensation of hourly employees. good attempt at diversion but still, no one can disprove my statement.

When Ed posts something about CEO compensation, we can have another discussion about that subject. It would be poor etiquette to change the subject on a thread.

Well stormy, it's part of the equation. The financial rewards for greater productivity aren't vanishing to thin air.

fore- look back at the chart. You concept of CEO pay is irrelevant to the point Ed is attempting to make. Maybe a CEO is grossly over paid. Maybe she made a great decision to invest in technology. Lots of possibilities. Ed's point is there is a divergence betwen the productivity growth and wage growth.

The first ever CEOs had to make a decision on whether to invest in the wheel and axle concept or to pile loads of goods onto the backs of workers to haul. Some probably chose each way. Ed's thinking is that unfortunately, the wagon was invented. I, though, tend to like wagons. Have on in my back yard for hauling stuff around to save me trips with a shovel.

Sometimes to understand the whys and wherefores you have to look beyond a simple chart. I would say (as usual) there are a multitude of reasons for the results that a chart displays and they will vary from one company to another. In some cases stormy's theory will have some validity. Fact of the matter is if CEOs weren't so over compensated there would be more wage money left for the average worker.

Or more money for the shareholders. Or more money for the growth of the business. I'm not disagreeig that CEO pay can be out of line.

But it is a leap to believe that the wage bucket is fixed, and that when one end goes up the other end necessarily teeters down. Labor, whether CEO or janitor, is market based. So is capital.

Fore...let's take this hypothetical scenario...You begin a company by investing all of your savings into developing a system that creates widgets. You start in your garage and work your ass off to grow the company to where you can hire a few employees. Over time, your company continues to grow until you reach the point where you have 5000 employees who are building widgets by hand. Your annual payroll is $2,000,000. Sales are booming. Along comes a supplier who says that he has built a machine which can allow you to make twice as many widgets at half the cost and it will reduce your work force by 50%. In the new environment, the workers will not have to do anything but watch the machine and make sure it is running. The machine will cost you $5,000,000 to buy, but you will save $1,000,000 a year in payroll costs and profits will rise. You make the investment in the machine (TAKING ALL OF THE RISK YOURSELF).

Who deserves to get the additional profit from the company? The employees who no longer have to do the backbreaking work of making widgets by hand? or you, who invested all you have to start the company and took all the risk related to the financial success? Are the employees going to bail you out if things go sour and there are not enough sales to make payroll?

Poor storm still using that good old supply side economic model to prove his point. So why are workers working longer hours for less pay storm. If machines factor in then it would be less work hours with less pay. BTW storm you are using factory work as your model and the majority of todays business in the US are service jobs and those require human workers not machines. So your whole theory is all wet. Oh and storm if machines were the reason then why are most production jobs shipped over sea's for the cheap labor, so none of what you are saying factors into the increased work hours for less wages. It just sounds good to you and has nothing to do with longer hours and 1973 wages.

Take this real life scenario.

A cable company's workforce of installers/repairers/cable runners has to fight tooth and nail even strike just to keep their benefits. The top CEO is being compensated $26 million a year. Other CEO's collect millions. Nothing has changed in 20 years as to how these installers and repair folks do their jobs. The CEO's haven't made any risky investments.

fore- are these installers installing more systems each hour that they were last year or ten years ago? If they are, is it because they have better tools? Is it because there is more in the way of switchers and routers so more work is from behind a computer screen and less wire pulling? Or maybe they install at the same rate as they previously did?

Possibly, technology in the form of wireless, etc, has reduced the demand for cable installers? There is also a reduced demand for buggy whips.

Which has nothing to do with what is going on. People are working longer hours for less wages. Has nothing to do with machines or what they are producing selling or servicing. For the simple minded it means that workers are now expected to do more work for less pay.

Rusty,

As usual you still fail to see the big picture.

fore- Maybe I am missing something- but I suspect the example you have given involves a work force that has basically the same productivity level over the years- so it wouldn't be representative of the chart above. I would also imagine the skill level requirements of the workers involved haven't increased either. From a pure economic aspect- someone in that position would be fortunate to keep up with inflation. The CEO in said business probably is overpaid. But if he took a paycut, that doesn't mean everyone else would get a raise.

No rusty what you fail to see is that people are working longer hours for less pay. Instead of hiring more workers to meet production the businesses are making workers work longer hours and they are not compensating with higher wages for those longer hours in fact wages have remained stagnant since the 1970's.

What that means is your old GOP talking point that prices are driven by workers wages is a lie but it goes against your beliefs so you try to reason it out to fit your beliefs using your beliefs that wages are driving prices up.

whom- why don't you post a source that shows people are working longer hours? I suspect that if you do so find a source, the time frame would only include the time span of Team Obama. Any longer time frame would prove your premise to be false. And that would mean that you are "fabricating" stuff again in order to facilitate your moveon talking points.

Can lead a horse to water but can't get him to pull a cart, or better known as tea bagging republican logic.

I would expect you to be on the side of the free loading horse vs the one that actually works. But- I guess your switch to nonsensical replies is an improvement from where you've been a liar up above.

Storm, I understand your theory but it's only part of the equation. Yes, machines have replaced people in certain fields/professions like building automobiles, canning food, newer tractors and implements to pick certain foods but at the same time, technology has created new jobs; software engineers, hardware engineers, internet businesses (Google, Facebook, eBay, PayPal), manufacturing plants to build those newer tractors/implements. We need to bring US corporations back to the US so the small companies/self employed aren't carrying the weight of the country on their shoulders.

Also, I don't have a problem with CEO's getting a bonus but their bonuses should be in line with their success. If the company made $1,000,000 in profit, they don't deserve a $1.5 mil bonus. If the company lost money, it makes no sense for them to get any bonus. And if you think stockholders are going to bail anybody out, you're mistaken. They'll sell that stock as quick as possible and cut their losses. (Actually, they can write it off.) On the other hand, I have heard of employees taking a cut in pay or investing in companies (employee-owned) to help keep it afloat.

Stormguy53, I will back your theory. In the early 70's IBM finally made a computer that replaced the mechanical cash register. From that point on the knowledge accumulation by the world of science changed to an exponential growth from a linear growth. Workers aren't working harder they are working smarter. 15 years ago my father installed a new main frame computer for Bowing, it replaced 120 workers. That CEO found a better way to do the same job. You can cry all you want to but Bowing is making better products for less.

You can be like the Amish and say that it was wrong for that company to come out of the dark ages, or you can get off your lazy butt and grow and learn with industry. Just like Steve Jobs, you work smart, educate yourself and you get ahead.

Funny how what you are saying is the exact same thing that was said when machines took over the jobs horses and cattle did over 100 years ago when the world went from a farming economy to an industrial economy. In fact almost word for word.

whoitmay, and yet that doesn't make it any less true. That's kind of the point of automation. You get more done with less work. Less work means less people you have to pay. Fewer people means lower rates of compensation compared to productivity.

But you are missing that people are working for longer hours for less pay. Machines have nothing to do with that or it would be working less hours with less pay. You also seem not to understand we are no longer on an industrial economy but a service economy and few machines are used in the service industry.

Actually- those who are saying people are working longer hours are exaggerating their claims for effect. I googled it, a number of sites, all reflecting differing elements, parameters, etc- but all show that a general, consistent downward trend from 1850s to current times with very few blips up.

BTW- my tax preparer uses a computer with a tax software. The Auto-Dealership I use uses a set of diagnostic tools including a computer, and even emails me with specific reminders based on needs. I noticed the drive-up window at McDonalds is staffed with a person who types in how much I handed in, and it calculates how much to give me back. When I get a haircut- the computer spits out how I like it cut, they just confirm it with me and it eliminates me trynig to explain instructions to them. UPS has tracking software, GPS, etc to make their jobs more efficient. Only an idiot would think service industry is unaffected by machines.

No rusty, for example custodians in schools used to have a work force of 5 to 6 people in the 1970's today they have 2 or 3 people doing the work of what used to take 6 while paying them no more then they paid when 6 people did the job. You keep saying that it has to do with machines and it has nothing to do with machines. It is about people doing more work for less pay.

Must be those greedy CEOs and Board Members. I would think you would support a property tax incease to pay janitors more. But- according to fore, there is a teeter totter on wages so when janitors get paid more, then teachers will get paid less.

I don't know how you can deny that in the production field rather than the service field that automation is a key component in rising productivity with lowered compensation. The farming industry alone demonstrates that much. You can run a farm today with five people that would once have employed fifty to a hundred people. The fact that only 2% of US jobs are now farming related yet food production has increased from where it was in the 50's and 60's should tell you that much. Do you really think that they would pay the five farm hands ten to twenty times what they used to make for less physical work just to even out the compensation rate? They literally have combines and threshers today that drive themselves and only have a person in the driver's seat to make sure the system is running properly.

And talking about teachers and custodians is a whole different kettle of fish because of the tug-of-wars that go on between school boards and teacher's unions.

Just to give you and example, my niece's grammar school will not have a librarian this year because of budget cuts. Now, rather than bar the kids from the school library and hinder their education in any way, several parents offered to volunteer at least one day a week to help the kids. This would be free and a means of keeping the library program up an running. But wait! The Librarian position is a union job. You can't have a volunteer doing that as it is against union rules. Instead the school library will be locked up tight and the kids denied access to something that the school could have easily still provided them for FREE until the budget matter was settled. Teacher's union caring about the kids my ass. If they cared about the kids they would let someone help them until the budget matter was settled. But it's politics like that that will hinder other staffers. If it does not go to the teachers personally, and thus to the dues paid the the union, the union will not support it and will in fact hinder it to improve its own power.

And yes, I realize that the whole matter I just outlined was totally off topic. It just still irritates me and I needed a forum to vent about it.

Again when workers are doing the work that used to require 2 people to do by working them more and not increasing their wages is what this is about, it has nothing to do with machines it has everything to do with workers. You are trying to say the machines are causing the problem when it has nothing to do with how workers hours are increased and wages are not increased.

John- you'll have to show whom where you said the librarian's hours went up and the pay went down. She gets upset when Fox "fabricates" thigs like suits against Obamacare, so I know she didn't just fabricate the way I think she did.

whomitmay, that's funny since the chart clearly is only comparing productivity percentages with compensation percentages. Without knowing the actual data points used (was productivity measured through GDP, import/export numbers, random sampling, etc.) and how compensation was measured (federal minimum wage, average US salary, etc) there is no way to even attempt to say anything like what you're claiming based on that single chart. You would need at least a full report, with several varied charts and graphs, to come close to backing up that statement. The fact that this chart fails to list any form of actual data measurement units other than a "percentage" and a year makes it highly suspect at best.

Right production up wages down = people doing more work for less wages. Automation does not factor into this nor was that what the graph is showing. When a chart has production + wages they are talking human workers not machine production. What you righties are trying to do is create an excuse why production is up.

Right production up wages down = people doing more work for less wages. Automation does not factor into this nor was that what the graph is showing. When a chart has production + wages they are talking human workers not machine production. What you righties are trying to do is create an excuse why production is up.

Oh and to prove that is what Ed's chart is about here is a site that goes into detail about what the chart is about.

http://www.epi.org/publication/ib330-productivity-vs-compensation/

Productivity growth, which is the growth of the output of goods and services per hour worked, provides the basis for the growth of living standards. However, the experience of the vast majority of workers in recent decades has been that productivity growth actually provides only the potential for rising living standards: Recent history, especially since 2000, has shown that wages and compensation for the typical worker and income growth for the typical family have lagged tremendously behind the nation’s fast productivity growth. This paper uses data from EPI’s upcoming The State of Working America, 12^th Edition (Mishel, Bivens, Gould, and Shierholz 2012) to document and explain these trends, particularly those of recent years.

Productivity growth, which is the growth of the output of goods and services per hour worked

You're trying to tell me that automation and modernization of equipment has no impact on, and I quote your very stub, "the output of goods and services per hour worked?" That a farm hand bringing in twenty times more bushels of wheat in the same eight hours due to improved machinery and only being paid a rate 17% higher then the inflation rate (which is the national average increase in wages over the specified period and still a good jump in pay) does not contribute to the statistics in that chart? Do you really have that poor of a grasp of simple statistics?

Quite a post whom. Could you point out the specific part that supports your point that people are working more hours than in the past? That point has been stated in everyone of your posts. I think it is a lie you are trying to repeat often enough that it gets accepted as truth.

The chart does clearly indicate that this trend has gotten worse since Obama took over.

Quite a reply rusty all you do is prove the point that if it doesn't fit your belief in Fox news it doesn't apply.

Yep- I didn't think you could. I wasn't aware Fox News was even involved in this discussion- but I do understand when your logic falls apart and the facts you spew are garbage- then trying to diffuse the issue may be your best path.

Fox news is always in your posts rusty, it is all that you have Fox news propaganda. That you can't even read a simple chart proves just how much you don't know. Diffuse sorry but not going to happen because there is nothing to diffuse because you are the one creating an excuse for the way corporations are using workers. But thats ok rusty we know how special needs people like to believe they are exceptional.

lol- whom- you are so full of something brown that smells bad. If you had one iota of logic or common sense, I would probably just let you slide off like so many on here. But- you've long proven, and currently reproving, that logic isn't a requirement on a political blog. Are you this way sitting around the break table at work? I bet they snicker about you when you leave. Circle back tomorrow and check for yourself...

Chris, That would crate Manufacturing jobs too. Great idea.

2ez, I don't understand your statement. Are you insinuating manufacturing jobs are demeaning?

Caregiver, If I may say so, I think he means someone would have to manufacture the whips.

Hello 2ez4u2c. I hope you had a nice Memorial Day.

Ok, India, thanks!

And using an inflation calculator, that $3.30 is equal to $19.57 today which means the average hourly wage has increased about 17% over that time.

and minimum wage in 1970 was $1.60. today it is $7.67.

repubs don't want to give a living wage. its all about themselves.

newt gingrich said it himself, "get rid of child labor laws".

this is why they want to get rid of unions, so they can work people here like they do in communist china-12 hours a day, 6 days a week. unsafe working conditions. no potty breaks, NOTHIN'.

"right to work" states want NOTHING for the people who make money for the CEO's.

repubs say they hate regulations, but they only hate regulations on the rich. they would regulate the workers to death, because they have not earned the special status that the rich have earned. and workers never will under a "right to work" state.

In "Right To Work" State's, if there is a union and you go to work at that company, it means you do not have to join the union.

But you still get paid the same wage as the person in the union.

Next the 8 hour day and 40 hour work week came from the Government on the unions!!!

Only 13% of the total work force are in a union. And 6% are Government workers.

If the unions are so great for American workers, then explain the city of Detroit, big union town, over 3 million people in the late 50's, today less than 750,000.

According to the US Dept of Labor, Federal minimum wage in 1970 was $1.45, not $1.60

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm

but what does that have to do with the discussion about the AVERAGE HOURLY WAGE for all workers?

the average American working on an hourly basis is making 17% more than he/she was 40 years ago when adjusted for inflation.

Inflation effects everyone, and when you are a rich person it effects you even more.

Inflation effects affects everyone, and when you are a rich person it effects affects you even more.

There you go.

In looking at the wage slope on the charts, it shows that from 2001 through 2008, the slope is positive and therefore shows wage gains. From 2009 onward, the slope has a camel's hump in it and wages have been dropping.

Rusty, Go to my profile page and pull up Ed' s vulture chart. Wages for 99% of Americans have been stagnant since 1980; since the Great Ronald Reagan.

Everything else you hear is BS from the GOP. The facts don't lie. The Republicans lie.

India- sure- that is obvious. However, the line has deteriorated since Obama came into office. It has taken a hump downward. You said it, the facts don't lie. They show Obama has been better than Bush at holding wages down while growing productivity.

How's this:

2008 Dow Jones Performance: Third Worst on Record

January 2, 2009

One good thing about 2008 is the year has come to an end. It is unlikely the market's performance in 2009 will generate the same outcome as 2008, but not a certainty.

The -33.8% return in the Dow Jones Industrial Average for 2008 is the third worst on record. As noted by Chart of the Day:

[the below chart] illustrates the 15 worst calendar year performances of the Dow since its inception in 1896...Only 1931 and 1907 endured greater declines. It is of interest that major banking crises occurred in 1931, 1907, 2008, and 1930 – the four worst calendar years on record in terms of stock market performance.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/112937-2008-dow-jones-performance-third-worst-on-record

Barack Obama wasn't in office in 2008.

If the workers want to receive a larger share of the profits...let them take a larger share of the financial RISK. An owner of a business (either an individual or shareholders of a corporation) does not owe the workers anything more than the wages they were promised when they began the job and any benefits that were negotiated. The workers have no right to the profits of the company. They got paid for the work they did.

If they CEO's were not getting the higher pay, do you think that would be going to the workers? OF COURSE NOT! It would be returned to the company in the form of PROFITS which would be split among the investors who owned stock.

Fox news goes marching on.

Fox news goes marching on.

Stormy

CEOs aren't taking any more of a risk and they're extremely over compensated.

And yes if upper management weren't so over paid the rest of the work force could get more,

And on And on

EL RE: You got that right! They have no idea just the bottom line push push push!

Stormy: I don't want a good wage or any benefits or a pension! That's for losers! I want everyone to make minimum wage! I must be jealous or an idiot!

What makes the economy go???? M O N E Y!!!! And if only a few have it?

D U H !

I think I need a full time job! But the pay isn't very good and its in CHINA!

It is fairly obvious that none of you have ever tried to run a company of any size whatsoever. A worker's value is not going to change based on the profitability of the company. However, the CEO of a company will see his value change based on his ability to make decisions which affect the profitability of the company. If he can't do just that, he will be ousted. If he can do it, he will be rewarded with bonuses.

Like it or not people, that is how the business world works. I would suggest that each of you go start your own little utopian business and then you can run it the way you want. Until then, suck it up.

Stormy:Are you that guard guy from Hogan's Hero's?

Stormy

Most of what you describe is what's wrong with the way a lot of businesses are run. Upper management is grossly overpaid to maximize profit at the expense of the average worker, You've actually just agreed with a liberal's point of view. I hope you don't lose sleep over it.

Oh and if management is smart a worker's value does change based on the profitability of the company.

XXX...when you can;t refute what your opponent has to say, start calling names. Very mature.

I have my own business and have run it for 17 years. So what about you? Sarge!

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/facebook-posts/

Click on the meter on the top! Surprise!

XXX...Actually I have started two separate businesses in my life. Sold the first one for a profit and moved to NJ for two years as VP of operations for a rival company. I refer to that as my two-year prison sentence.

Started my second company about 8 years ago and things are going great. small operation but I get to set my hours and make the decisions regarding how the business should be run. I invested all I had in this business and will not feel guilty for taking the profits as we continue to prosper. Regardless of whether that is $1 or $1,000,000,000.

When the employees are willing to put in as many hours a week as I do, risk all that they own and assume the legal liability that I have, then they can start asking for some of the profits. Until then...back off.

If you want to share your profits with your employees...go for it. No one is stopping you.

FORE...last time I checked, no one was stopping you from starting your own company and showing all of the greedy SOB CEO's the right way to do things. Why don't you get off your butt and actually do it instead of sitting on the sideline bellyaching?

Lets try this one....LOST IN SPACE! #19.10 try to stay with me will ya! Sarge!

and that has what relevance to what we are discussing?

I'm not bellyaching. I'm basically retired. I just don't like the way the country is going.

The division of wealth is creating a bad situation for future generations. At this point in time republicans are making matters worse.

I did manage a store. Not huge, we did about 5 million a year in sales. I made a point of flattening the difference between lowest and highest paid. Turnover dropped to about nothing. You may know that retraining is expensive. People were happier at work so customer service improved and so of course sales improved. Lots ways to gauge success.

Good night.

Fore, I remember when some companies offered profit sharing. That also made happier employees, higher productivity and less turnover. The employees felt they were a part of the company; that they counted. My husband has been with the same company for over 30 yrs. The company he works for was sold. The new owner took away their shift differential pay and holiday pay when they have to work on any holiday. At this point, he's just biding his time until he retires or they buy him out so they can hire someone cheaper.

There are too many companies now who don't appreciate a great employee and why should they? Employees are a dime a dozen now.

Your stories are not alone there are millions more like it. The rich and powerful are shutting down all the avenues of a promised future. And now they want total control its like a dark cold black box closing in on us stuck in the falling middle class and we see, at least some of us do, the end of a good future and the end of ever digging out or advancing upward. We also know we are getting the short end of the stick and we don't want anything to do with it. I see the plan of the corporatocracy and I know if this election and the next two will be all the difference. If not the election it will end in a violent revolution and that I don't want but if it comes to that so be it. It is truly an evil plan of which forces are hidden behind closed doors the names may be unknown for now but the truth will certainly leak out and when it does things won't be pretty. So really its the choice of the rich and powerful if they decide to take this path and if they do the blood ours and theirs will be on their hands.

I will add this, this propaganda that so many believe or accept as being fair game they are most surely mistaken and they may think hiding behind lloopholes in the law or borderline skirting of the law is not enough too make us think they have the god given right to rule and the rest to be subservient to them.

Under a Democrats leadership in that scenario, the pizza would have cost $5,431,128,954.79 because of the union thugs who would have told all of the employees to go on strike because they were not getting paid enough. Afterwards, all Americans would be getting a bill in the mail telling them that the government decided to bail out the poor pizza maker because it wasn't fair that he lived in a non-right to work state and was forced to pay the union wages.

Wrong AGAIN that's what the Democrats have to do after a Republican's in office!

Its Republican Heaven! I can see Johnny crying now!!!

No..the Republicans would have found a way to expand it from one shop making pizza into a large chain that would employ hundred or thousands of people and bring the cost of pizza down to something that the masses could afford.

Oh WAIT...that actually did happen. It was Romney's Bain Capital firm that helped Domino's expand.

GAME. SET MATCH!

Wrong again Sarge! The guys at Bain would have over invested and filled a chapter 11 leaving the bill to the taxpayers and stole the pensions and sold the equipment to China and pocketed the money. Because that's what they REALLY DID!

CHECKMATE!

GAME OVER

http://www.joetaxpayer.com/why-private-equity-does-what-it-does/

http://www.commonsensejunction.com/?p=17560

SEE what a wonderful Guy he would be if he were president!

Do yourself a favor and STOP watching FOX and listening to Lush Rimjob!

When did Domino's declare bankruptcy? Can you provide a link to that? what pensions were stolen from Domino's?

If Bain had over invested...wouldnt Bain have been the company to go bankrupt?

Another Democrat lie...surprise surprise..

First part Sarge was hypothetical I didn't make it Dommono's you did! And for the second I can see why you other business went bust...all the surprises seem to happen to you don't they! Sarge!

They invest by taking on more debt! GET IT well here you go you don't have to read it either to make easy for you to understand. SARGE!

http://patriotacts.com/tony-soprano-explains-the-bust-out-and-bain-profits

So when you lose you resort to calling me a liar! Hmm Very mature And Republican!

Touch'e

BUBBLE gum dad gum infernal machine...grumble grumble..#$@%&$#

Touch'e and double play! Hey hey hey!

and exactly where did I call you a liar?

When did Domino's declare bankruptcy? Can you provide a link to that? what pensions were stolen from Domino's?

If Bain had over invested...wouldnt Bain have been the company to go bankrupt?

Another Democrat lie...surprise surprise..

• !

#20.6 - Sat May 26, 2012 8:02 PM CDT

Typical Republican say something and then deny it!

Hat trick!

It was another liberal trick! Ha Ha!

xxx ooo Are referring your comments to GTS Steel, your remarks. Tell me this, what do really know about GTS and Bain Capital. I've listen to Uncle Ed and his remarks which are false, give me your point of view?

Forget it XXX as you can see they know nothing that Fox doesn't tell them and they are the true believers that worship the delusions of their tin god Reagan, like Reagan they are delusional. They really need professional help but like all insane people they think all their problems in life are created by others and not themselves. That they seem to believe businesses like Staples and Dominos provide good jobs shows just how delusional they are.

Whomitmay- Since your point of view is taking the back door out. Make your case! You really want a discussion about jobs, and the Obama administration achievements. Let me help in review of the past 3 years. Let's talk about Raser Technologies. In 2010, the Obama administration gave Raser a $33 million taxpayer-funded grant to build a power plant in Beaver Creek, Utah. According to the Wall Street Journal, after burning through our tax dollars, the company filed for bankruptcy protection in 2012. The plant now has fewer than 10 employees, and Raser owes $1.5 million in back taxes First Solar. The Obama administration provided First Solar with more than $3 billion in loan guarantees for power plants in Arizona and California. According to a Bloomberg Business week report last week, the company “fell to a record low in Nasdaq Stock Market trading May 4 after reporting $401 million in restructuring costs tied to firing 30 percent of its workforce. have you checked your electric bill lately. next year projections are 30% increase. You want more brought to the table?

BOL here we go again with the Fox news hour.

come on Whomitmay - there's no Fox here, just facts. I'm for a free AMERICA. But big Obama government is not the solution. I want you me and every person on this forum to prosper. The private sector is the only way. But to raise my taxes for an idiot down in Knoxville Tennessee that has 30 children with 11 different woman, and says the government need to take care of them. I resent that. Look at California, 15 billion in the Red, mass exodus from Individuals and Corporation. And Governor Brown, Boxers and the Nut Case Waters, Say, " Raise Taxes" Look at the cause and open up yours eyes and look. You to ED, the cause. Just in Los Angeles County Illegal's are costing Tax payers 1.6 billion dollars. And Obama want to legalize them. Surely you're not that Naive. And you say it's your Fox hour.

Whom and his ilk can't get it through their heads that the "provider class" is getting tired of being screwed by the "recipient class". They think the "makers" will sit still while the "takers" run roughshod over them.

Whom, just remember you need us, we don't need you!!!!!

eugeniepatstheduc- I'll translate what you're saying, " I WANT A FREE RIDE." Na, I don't need you, I'm self made. I went thru the school of hard knocks. You want the easy road. But while we're on the topic of Screwed. Define, how you were screwed?

Republicans 100 years of being 100% wrong on everything and over 40 years of stupidity as well as 20 years of being misinformed. How misinformed are our little sock puppet minority, they actually believe their opinions and words have meaning on Eds blog. If we wanted that kind of stupidity we would watch Fox news and get it first hand. About the only thing your post do around here is make people realize just how stupid republicans are.

I'm laughing so hard I'm cracking ribs. Your such an idiot. This my favorite quote you made " How misinformed are our little sock puppet minority, they actually believe their opinions and words have meaning on Eds blog. You such a Corn Ball! LOL LOL

Hey laugh away but it is you who is the joke. You are a dishonest re reg who thinks he can go on a left leaning blog and spew Fox news like he has something to say that proves the 97% wrong, seeing as you only represent 2% of the posters that post your repeated nonsense. All you do is show how delusional you are. Here is a clue we heard all of your tea bagging republican talking points before because you been saying them non stop since that stupid 3rd rate actor first uttered them in 1979. So HDRK how long do you think it will be before the mods ban you again.

ya know, I'm curious about you. Instead of BABBELING on your post. What do you really want? This is a honest question, give me a honest answer?

What makes you think I want anything? I am not a republican, I'm content with what I have, why is it that you tea bagging republicans have a belief that the world owes you something.

What makes you think I want anything? , I'm content with what I have

Now that's funny. The 1st and only liberal that doesn't want something from the provider class

whomitmay- What can Obama offer you as an individual? No Babbeling allowed, straight answer

let me answer for WHOM...you must be a radical right wing tea bagging troll who listens to the lies from Faux news...talking about the last 30 years of BS that came out of Ronnie's lips. It has to be Bush's fault.

How did I do?

Stomrguy- back up what your saying. Don't come on with your babbeling. Make your case.

Nope it is a GOP failure for a bunch of losers that believe that any day now they will get a golden handout that will give them the key to the 1% club. That you tea bagging republicans have bought that Reagan lie and remain faithful to the lie is very clear. Here is a clue, it isn't the poor inner city single teen mom causing you to fail it is those fat cats you admire stopping you because they don't want dirty back biting low life tea baggers stinking up their 1% club.

Outlaw...that was sarcasm on my part. I have to put up with WHOM's babbling all the time. I am one of the good guys...

My response was pretty close...

whomitmay - I was poor, had a dream, started my little business in my garage, worked 80 hours a week. Quit my job, employee 14 great individuals, I spoil them rotten. I give them health care, I give them dental, I Pay my 35% Corp taxes, and you want more taxes, Are catching my point yet.

Right then there is reality. To bad for you that Reagan and the GOP closed down the mental hospitals before you could get help for your delusions of grandeur.

Like I said...I was pretty close with my answer.

Maybe one day Whom can actually add something worthwhile to a discussion here other than his normal responses. It is a shame he can't actually discuss something like an adult.

Many of those who have taken the bait of what FOX Rush the GOP/TP may not think they would never cut such things as welfare food stamps education they will. What they call entitlements is a misnomer and its not just SSI Medicare Medicaid lets not forget the veterans, post office, VA Hospitals all government workers who have worked for years under contract. The Republicans will cut all this and more but have made clear to build up the military which would bankrupt the people of the USA part of a plan I believe is to just that. Obama would have a leaner meaner military and more advanced than any in the world. Unlike the republicans want more of everything they would subcontract to foreign countries and would be a windfall for their corporate buddies, furthering the national debt and laying off even more in the USA. Their wishes to privatise everything schools the USPO and even the military. That's not the end of what they are and want to privatise, water and public lands roads bridges seaports airports and all aspects of the public of which we currently enjoy as our public freedom. So foolish are so many to take the bait and fall for the blame going to the hard working people in the USA, as if it was their fault for the collapse of the housing bubble as it was not. Pushed legislation by the Republicans gave the loopholes to bankers and the congress was warned of this by many people it would one day soon come crashing down in a thud. Former house wrecker GWB wanted to end SSI and have the people invest into the stockmarket. Could you imagine how much more impact that would have had on the USA! It makes me sick just to think of it and may have been the first sign of the plan to default the USA. MItt Romney is the chosen one for this particular reason, he has no qualms and is a pro when it comes to smiling in your face and latter sticking a knife the backs of who he has control over. Romney will default the US on purpose and has the experience to do this, and his past work is proof. Why would Mitt do this? Because he has only god knows how much he has stashed away and doesn't want it to be known how much he has cheated the government and there are many others like him who wish the same. They want the Federal Reserve to come to an end so they can have control over a new system and banking no more FDICA backing. The evil plans have been made a long time ago in think tanks of which we have no knowledge of and can only speculate of who is behind the doors of that quiet room. If Romney takes power of the White House and the GOP/TP have control both parts of the legislature Obama will be the scapegoat for the default of the USA and when that happens all hell will break lose and anarchy will rule the day across the USA and the rest of the world will fall into it also. Many will die as the new order the Corporatocray will have been formed. I didn't take the bait but too many have and if in November the evil power takes the day it will be the end of freedom in the whole world as we know it. The signs are there if you don't believe take another look before its too late.

xxx

3 words that rhyme with default!

Community Reinvestment Act

xxx ooo -

It sound like the sky is falling. Let me tweak you just a little. Let's say Obama change Corporate taxes from 35% to 15%, would that help our ECONOMY? WOULD THIS BENEFIT PEOPLE LIKE YOU OR WOULD IT MAKE YOUR SITUATION WORSE? Mind you, with Congressional approval, you wouldn't see any real affect for about six to eight months. Would you favor this change?

Jerry: CRA was a good idea but it had lack of oversight and unforced regulation and was abused to the point of collapse. The GOP fights anything that will stop this from happening again...result default AGAIN! Seems you agree the GOP has it all wrong!

outlaw: You are unafraid too bad you fail to see or believe it.

Of course it would help to increase the rate. Business has a bottom line and to make it more investment in ways to get there, this includes JOBS in the companies and for new equipment to achieve these goals providing more JOBS to other companies as well. If passed the impact would be immediate on new JOBS lending and growth. So why not do it? YES!

Or lets go back to the Bush failed economy that was in free fall long before the the crash. Romney/Ryan plan for failure is GWB on steroids! Is that what you want and its been 12 years of that because of it and you would have more?

Of course they would remember they are exceptional people who like Joe the Plumber that suffer from delusions that make them think they are big shots in the GOP economy. Pretty much like JtP they are over their heads when it comes to anything like reality, so they walk around with their heads stuck up their 4th point of contact refusing to see anything that doesn't fit their delusions.

xxx ooo Ok now were getting somewhere. You'll not only have growth, unemployment would fall off the shelf. Large manufacture from other countries would fly in here faster than you could whistle Dixie. Corporate and manufacture would create expansion, more employment and here the good news supply and demand would come into play. More job position than labors equal higher wages. Speaking for myself as a business owner. Along with hourly wages, I've inputted production and quality incentives. These incentive can bring an additional annual $1,500 to $3,000 per employee. My results are low employee absent and zero turn over the last 3 years. Obama wants Capital gains up to 20% from 15%, you'll see business and investors drop off the market so fast, it would make the 1929 stock crash look like a ladies social. Look at taxes as a gallon of gas. when gas drops per gallon good for you. Allows more spending for extra needs or savings which gives strength toward your portfolio. Government expansion, well look at Greece. Agree or disagree xxx ooo were both here for one reason. SURVIVAL

Hey XXX how rich would we be if we got a dime for every tea bagger that bragged they were important businessmen. Then he whines that a 5% capital gains tax will prevent job creators from creating jobs that they never created when they got the tax cuts, so another words Bull @!$%#. Boy the Fox news misinformation runs deep with our little friend doesn't it.

whomitmay - Did you Nancy Pelosi and Debbie Wasserman Schultz come out of the same egg?

whomitmay - Did you Nancy Pelosi and Debbie Wasserman Schultz come out of the same egg?

lol

Whom- it appears you have been busy being stupid this weekend. I hope you were an only child- lol- and more to the point- have no offspring. Or, if you do, you get them involved in a good education program that contains a logic course...

Thats rich coming from a person who has yet to post one thing based on logic. You repeat talking points and Fox news reports based on emotional outrage, which you then try to pass off as logic. The day you say anything based on logic will be the day the Earth will stop spinning and everyone will fly off into space. Education right rusty something that you sorely lack, why do we know this rusty because you support a party that wants education to be only for those who can afford it and have been trying to destroy public education every since blacks were allowed to get educated in public schools.

I always get a good laugh whenever Whom criticizes anyone else for their poor education. That just cracks me up..

Well it should storm, thats what dumb kids do when confronted by someone smarter then themselves. How do I know that? For one thing smart people don't try to repeat right wing nonsense on a left leaning blogs where right wing nonsense are known to be big fat lies to get stupid people to vote GOP.

Thank you for proving my point Whom...

If you ever decide to grow up and want to join the discussion with facts, let me know.

Honk, Honk- hey whom- the short bus is here.

All you have to do is post proof of the nonsense you are claiming. Proof for your claims shouldn't be depentant upon where I get my news.

Of course, since you've been confronted, all you've been able to muster is innuendo about your confronters being TPers, etc. Not quite the proof that is needed for your point.

Yeah rusty we saw that as soon as you and storm started posting tea bagging Fox news reports and trying to pass that misinformation off as your opinions.

Oops I misread your post Sarge if Obama would increase the tax rate NOT lower it. I don't agree with you at all.

Oh boy another delusional poster, here is a clue Fox news is over there --------->.

Are corporations anybody??? I agree whomy!-----------------> thataway!---------> FOX NEWS home of the master fabricators!

This is one of theirs WOW! How articulate! That one still has a line in its mouth!