Sure, everything else seems to be fair, so why not religious beliefs? Religious beliefs can play a big part in how our potential leaders form their political beliefs, and it's always better to be forewarned.

I have to agree with David. It would seem there is an element in the religious community that is bent on bringing about the end of the world. I think it's only fair to ask our leaders if they believe God put them in power rather than the voters. I'm in no big hurry to meet Jesus.

Rob,

me neither (not ready to meet jesus).

i've talked to many repubs who believe in the bible so much. they agreed with bush's iraqi war, because they felt it was biblical, and would bring about the rapture.

"i believe in the bible". that's justification for EVERYTHING to the repubs.

lie, steal, kill innocent people, do whatever, as long as repubs THINK its biblical.

Let's see....it's been fair for 55 years if you're a Democrat. Yes it is!

Romney...as a Bishop of the Mormon church...what do you believe?

What happened to the separation of church and state? Your personal religious beliefs should remain just that-personal.

Yes, Suuzette, It is fair game to discuss religious belief. But it has to be both ways, Romney;'s religion has to be discussed too. That hateful Hannity was at it again about Rev.Wright. He has a real bad and hateful feelings against Obama.

I have tried to respect other people's religion, but when they start lying and attack my beliefs, the gloves come off.

No apologizes.

Mac,

like i said above, they started it.

the repubs in the supreme court started this "citizens united". we saw what romney did to his competitors before he became the "nominee". i hope they are prepared to take it as well as they dish it out.

Only fair if it is introduced by either side.If Romney wants to bring up the Presidents religeous beliefs then he can get ready to have his brought up. But there should be a seperation of church and state and this just shows what hypocrits the GOP really

are that they can't take the heat.

@suzette

I say NO.... and just because the Repugs do it, doesn't make it right. 2 WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT! Instead what we should be doing is reminding the Repugs and the public what the Constitution says, that there is no religious test for the Presidency and that there is a separation of church and state in this country.

We need to call the Repugs/TEApugs/Evangelicals out on their ignorance of the Constitution and the principals and laws of this country... and hold them accountable when they try to make religion a topic of discussion in relation to the Presidency.

As far as this controversy currently being discussed, when it comes down to it... it's not really so much about religion as it is about the Repugs usual scare tactics and fear mongering about race and radicals. It is their usual way to rachet up the suspicion and fear in their base. But it will only work with their ignorant and gullible base who respond to that sort of thing anyway.

The majority of Americans have come to know who President Obama is and they like him. They know that he's not a radical and they have seen how steady and thoughtful he is in his decision making. So this whole racheting up on the subject of religion is ridiculous and stupid... on both sides of the isle.

Frankly... I seriously don't think Mutt Robme is eager to bring the subject of religion into the discussion, since he has seemed to avoid like the plague any discussion of religion up to now. Because he has known that his own religion would be a big sticking point among the Repug/TEApug and especially the Evangelical base.

HI Kathe

I posted this on yesterdays blog, but for anyone who didn't see it.... these might answer some questions about basic beliefs of LDS/Mormons. I hope it helps and feel free to ask me any other questions you might have.

Here is a site that actually gives truthful basic information about a number of aspects of the LDS/Mormon church and their beliefs. Maybe it will help clear up some misunderstandings, or spark some additional questions. If so.... feel free to ask.

http://mormonsmadesimple.com/

Scully,

I have another question. Why did you leave the LDS church and does the Book of Mormon replace the Bible in church services? The Bible does specifically state that nothing should be added to or taken away from the scriptures,Revelations.

I want to understand, but there is truly some very disconcerting information about Mormons. I respect the fact that they respect their bodies. I applaud that fact. But what is this business about planets? Last of the questions, I will try to do more reading as well.

D.SCULLY - I agree with you when you say no. What if the person was an ATHEIST ? Would you still vote for them ?

Rob,

Thanks for your views on this because that is an extremely helpful way to pose this question!!!

i do believe in the separation of church and state and i think they would love to drag us down in the mud they all wallow in on this issue...

that said, i do feel they have a wildly skewed belief that claims god did in fact speak to them in their decision to run for office and they believe Catholicism should be imposed on Women who hold secular positions in their businesses...which begs the question if they believe they are working for the People on the Peoples behalf or if they would further impose their misguided religious views on the electorate???

@Rob

I agree... that is a major part of the doctrine of many Christian religions, particularly Evangelicals.... but I've also heard mention of it in the LDS church when I was an active member. I have heard discussion of signs of The Last Days and anticipation of the Return of Jesus Christ and the Millennial Era to follow, etc. I've never been in a big hurry for it either.

I agree... we have to be concerned with these idiots who think God told them to run for office (I think there were 3 or 4 who claimed that) and whether they think God put them in office. I've never heard President Obama claim that because I think he knows that WE THE PEOPLE put him in office and that is who he is working for. Not to bring about some ridiculous idea of God's will... as these religious rightwing nuts believe.

i think they have the wrong God...

the G.O.D. they praise is Gold...Oil...and Drugs!!!

they only seem to worship at the alter of the Profit for the few, further degradation of Our land and they are consumed by drug culture politics!!!

If your a Republican its fair to question others beliefs, question their allegiance while not having an allegiance to your country, the voters or even following your own religion.

Family Value candidates project their faults on to other and then try to beat them with it. I walk away from any politician running on the family values platform because time after time they are perverts, adulterers and deadbeats on taxes and their family.

Ed....Romney is listening to every word uttered by every host on the evening slate starting with the Chris Matthews Show....as you have noticed he is showing yet again..his unreliability because he is formulating , of late, his responses to what all of you ( MSNBC ) are saying he SHOULD be saying..... EX: now he finally REPUDIATES....something......and....now he is sticking to WHATEVER HE SAID BEFORE ( trying to show lamely he is not a flip-flopper ).
The truth is , Romney has no clue what he wants, where to go next, what to agree or disagree with, or what he will say from one day to the next...of course until he hears you guys tell him what you want to hear.......He is mis- guided, and ready to be led by the nose by his fellow Republicans and Limbaugh....they already know they can control him...that will be the easy part. Getting him into the White House to carry out their plans is the challenge. These religious issues again brought up by them is being done out of desperation and in this case..... he believes if it will hurt Obama and help him ....he will try anything...I mean the agenda They told him to discuss.[Religion]

DScully,

in a perfect world i would agree with you.

but what makes you think we can call the repubs out for anything?

look at the obstructionism and the filibustering that has occured since Obama took office, in accordance with their pledge to each other in that special meeting repubs had when President Obama was inaugurated.

this has nothing to do with a "religious test". this has to do with repubs scaring the american people so they don't vote for President Obama again. everything they have been doing speaks to their intention to remove him from office, SAYING "NO" TO ALL of OBAMA'S ECONOMIC POLICIES to make him look like a failure. saying he is a muslim, and a kenyan is frightening to some americans. and the redistricting and voter suppression laws are also meant to keep him from getting re-elected.

in regard to calling the repubs out on their ignorance of the constitution, THEY DON'T CARE IF WE CALL THEM OUT, because the constitution is one of their "PROPS". they use it like they do the bible, god, religion, mom and apple pie. repubs have been unembarassable in their OBVIOUS attempts to make Obama a one term President. in regard to the individual mandate, the dream act, cap and tax, ALL REPUB IDEAS, they act as if they have never heard of them. they don't care that we know they are lying.

IN A PERFECT WORLD your ideas are great. but we cannot ignorantly, passively sit by while the repubs are doing EVERYTHING THEY WANT TO DO to dishonor President Obama.

the repubs will stop at nothing. after 3.5 years of this, we should know. when President Obama has tried to compromise and reach common ground with repubs, they have not responded in kind. they have demonized and disrespected this President at EVERY OPPORTUNITY, and FOR US to ignore that and "play nice" would be a big mistake.

i doubt if President Obama will be the one slinging the mud, but repubs play dirty, and i want to see democrats fight back.

we have seen what they will do when we don't.

What happened to the separation of church and state? Your personal religious beliefs should remain just that-personal.

Not if your personal belief is to force a nation to believe the same, say like with Al-Qaeda, and the Taliban. Or many in the tea party and religious right.

These are things voters must know.

i agree.

The most important thing to discuss during campaign season is religion.

When else are you you find out that a candidate does not believe you deserve equal rights, or liberties, or education?

After they get elected?

Like Nixon?

Who started the war on drugs that sucked the money out of schools because he was a Quaker?

Or the Presbyterian that started nonsense with Iran because he thought they were uncivilized?

I am utterly shocked that anyone would consider this topic to be taboo after it has cause so much harm to the country.

agree, Crackhead.

Hi Elizabeth

In the link I gave, there is a short video that talks about the use of scripture within the LDS church. Both the Book of Mormon and the Bible are used along with other scriptural tools in church meetings, Sunday school and personal study.

Regarding the reference to the admonition to Revelations "not to add or take away", this actually refers only to adding or taking away from the Book of Revelations... not the Bible. This is often misunderstood because most people don't realize that the books of the bible were not written in the order they are compiled in the Bible volume. These books were all written as separate writings of the Prophets and Apostles and at different times.

I believe it was King James who commissioned his religious men or court priests to compile the numerous writings of the Prophets and Apostles together into one volume... the Bible. But they weren't necessarily put together in the order of the date they were written.

Which means that the Book of Revelations could very well have been written by Apostle John long before some of the other books that come earlier in the New Testament. If the edict to "not add or take away" meant the entire Bible, then any of those writings that were written after Revelations would also not be valid.

But if you notice Apostle John is only talking about adding or taking away from the words of this prophecy specifically.

Revelations 22

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ^aadd unto these things, God shall add unto him the ^bplagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the ^abook of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So Mormons believe that admonition does not mean that no other scripture or guidance from God can be received. In fact if it did, it would basically mean that God would be effectively silenced and could no longer give future guidance or prophecy to his children. But Mormons believe that God does still give guidance to his children as they need it through a prophet.

Also... doesn't the Catholic church also believe that the Pope receives direction and revelation from God for the members of the Catholic church? So this idea of continuing revelation and direction from God is not that unusual a concept.

I hope that explains a bit more why Mormons claim the Book of Mormon, and other scriptures as additional revelation from God. I think a couple of the videos at the link I gave help explain some of these things also. I'm not sure exactly what your question about "planets" is referring to... unless you give me more information. Whatever you heard might have been some misinformation given just to confuse something about real Mormon doctrine. Give me more details about it and I can tell you if it's true or not.

Thank you Scully, I do appreciate your patience.

I, as a protestant (Methodist) believe that I no longer need a go-between other than Christ himself. That was the purpose of the sacrifice on the cross- the ultimate sacrifice. The veil has been ripped and I can go to my heavenly Father based on the blood of Christ alone. I call no man Father on this earth, I have only a heavenly Father and a Daddy. I respect good teachers and preachers of the scripture, there are some, but I do not allow my faith to depend on anyone or thing. While I respect the Pope as a fellow believer, I have as much right and ability to go to my God as he does. I will talk to the Lord about my life myself. So I guess what I am saying is, prophets don't mean anything to me.

Have you seen some of the posts here about the planet Kolob?

Hey Kathe and DScully

I thought we had overcome this 'religious' thing when Kennedy became president in 1960. Now we are at it yet again this time with Romney's religion and Obama's. People still clinging to the belief that Obama is a 'Muslim' and Romney have some 'weird' 'new' different religion. Which is also not the case. When in all actuality either mans' religion is not suppose to matter due to 'separation' of church and state of which the teabaggers seem to think that religion should matter as long as its 'theirs'. And the only time God ever talks to me is when I have been on a 'fast' for at least 12 days.

And I would like to add that if 'democrats' were really jealous or envious of 'rich' people then we would not like Kennedy or Kerry because both of the guys are filthy rich but the didn't have to steal it from pensions like Flip Robme does.

I want to apologize for not being on the site recently but I am doing more volunteer work now and renovating my house, I will be back soon.

@Ted

Well to tell you the truth, we have already had a number of Presidents who were for all intents and purposes atheists... regardless of whether or not they claimed to believe in God. And if memory serves, a number of the founding fathers were also atheists. So no.. I don't put a religious test on those I vote for.... I put more consideration in what their policies are.

In my opinion, the majority of the representatives (particularly in the GOP) are not sincere in what they claim to believe.... especially since the policies they support are in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus Christ. I have never considered Repug philosophy to be in keeping with Christian teachings.

As far as whether I would vote for an atheist... or someone having any other religious affiliation other than Christian... yes I would. The only things that are of concern to me is that their political philosophies and policies are the most favorable for the good of the majority in the country.

I've learned by experience, that many politicians simply give lip service to their religious convictions or Christian principals, yet make policy in contradiction of those Christian principals. So their supposed religious beliefs are irrelevant, if they are hypocritical in their actions.

Hey D Scully----glad to have some-one on who can shine a little light on Mitts religion. and glad to here from you---I've got one question, OK---does the Mormon faith still believe that it is a sin for Mormons to marry someone of the Black race?

Hi Scully,

Most people aren't as aware as you of what Bible actually is. I read the whole thing before I was 12. Studied a few other religions.

Read Genesis very closely. Pishon and Gishon are under the Persian Gulf.

There it is. Plain as day. Two large rivers no longer on the surface with lush vegetation in Iran and Saudi Arabia.

The bottom of the Persian Gulf was dry land no more recently than 13,000 years ago just before perpetual drought created Arabia and Sahara deserts (there is still water close to the surface in some areas).

Writing was invented about 6,000 years ago.

We were illiterate for 7,000 years before that part of Genesis was written down.

Seriously.

Some GOP presidents have treated science as if it is a conflict of interest because the geological record is incompatible with biblical creation.

Some GOP candidates still say science is blasphemy. Bush's prohibition on stem cell research comes to mind.

Only an unhealthy mind would have beliefs that are so strong that they would consider writing laws based on 13,000 year old illiterate conversations recorded by dead civilizations.

This is why it is important to question candidates religious beliefs.

The Catholic Church investigate miracles.

Do not remember a pope that claimed to have personal conversations with God.

The Pope and the College of Cardinals are roughly the equivalent of president and ambassadors. They implement the Code of Cannon Law.

The Catholic Church clammed up about miracles after Fatima. Spooky.

@DemElizabeth,

Scully's gonna hunt me down and murder me for this.

Just click here ---->>> http://www.salamandersociety.com/

Or here ---->>>> http://www.salamandersociety.com/romney/

This one's good ---->>> http://www.salamandersociety.com/planetkolob/

The Salamander site is like an attack add instruction book.

Romney bought mormonsagainstromney.org and translated it into Korean.

He needs to make a public statement that he won't let religion influence government policy decisions.

Otherwise he is gonna get tarred and feathered if he doesn't buy up all the vanity web site names that contain some form of "romney".

Most Americans either believe that Barack Obama is Muslim or believe that he is a closet Muslim. At the very least they believe that he believes in Black Liberation Theology (i.e. Black American Muslim). I remember a primary in the southern states where a poll showed that over half the people thought the President was Muslim. MSNBC called it the "Toothless Primaries" to try and discredit this belief. The fact of the matter is that it's out there.

Ask yourselves, do you really want to make either sides religious beliefs an issue in this upcoming election.

Personally, I'll put Mormon up against Muslim any day of the week.

Elizabeth

I thought I remembered you asking about why I left the church, but I forgot to answer that in my previous post... which had gotten rather long anyway with my response to the bible question.

Anyway.... my leaving the church was sort of a progressive thing and happened almost without me really planning it. I don't know how other religions or churches are, but being an active LDS member is almost all consuming. A good deal of your time is spent in church meetings on Sundays or church associated auxiliary activities during the week. Then in your personal time you are encouraged to have daily scripture study, family and personal prayer, etc.

After so many years of such an endless flurry of activity.... I was finally feeling tired and bit discouraged with my situation in life. Dreams unfulfilled and goals still unaccomplished, and most important... I really felt out of place as a single woman without children. The church is very marriage and family oriented and if you don't fall into those categories... it's easy to feel like an odd man out.

So when I started a new career as a speech therapist about 10 years ago and decided to go back to school to work on my Master's degree... it was easy to use that as an excuse for not having the time to regularly attend church meetings anymore, etc. Then I moved to a different area for a new job and only had rare or little contact with the church.. when I wanted to. When I moved again to another area for a new job, I didn't bother to contact the church in that area at all.

After several years of little to no participation in the church, I found that I didn't miss it and felt a lot less pressure personally to measure up to a standard the church sets to strive for personal perfection. I also felt more free to express my more liberal political views... which are generally not accepted by those in the church. I sometimes wonder how Harry Reid deals with being known as the Democratic Senate Leader in his local ward.

I had virtually severed all physical ties with the church, by simply not attending or contacting the local church in my new areas when I moved. But I think what finally caused me to decide to sever my spiritual ties or my belief in the church was during the campaign against Prop 8. I didn't like the lengths the church went to or became involved in during that campaign against Gay marriage in California.

I could understand to some extent the church's reasons for opposing gay marriage, as they view the gay lifestyle as a sin.... though I don't agree. But I didn't like the lies that were being told in the ads against gay marriage in their efforts to overturn it. If they felt they were really in the right to oppose gay marriage on the basis that they believe it is against God's law... then that should have been the only argument they should have made.

But instead they came out with the typical lies that we hear from the GOP... such as that gay marriage would somehow interfere with heterosexual marriage, or that schools would be mandated to teach the homosexual lifestyle, or that churches would be forced to marry gays against their religious convictions. I had discussions with friends in the church, who also argued these points... but I knew they weren't true and made no sense.

I decided that if the church had to lie to gain support and influence voters to their point of view, then I could no longer believe they were in the right. At the very least, a church should be honest in their positions and shouldn't have to resort to lies. Unfortunately... in conforming themselves over the years to the conservative views of the country, the church has strayed far from it's original socialist roots and organization that was originally set up by Joseph Smith.

I feel the same about Mutt Robme... I'm disgusted and disappointed that everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie and he's such a bad example of a Christian. I realize that he is just repeating all of the same lies and talking points needed to appeal to the GOP base. But he has proven by his willingness to tell anyone anything to get their vote that he doesn't have any real convictions of his own. That along with his being completely out of touch with average Americans, and adopting the radical policies of the far right make him completely unacceptable.

@mconley and Louis David

I agree.... there is supposed to be separation of church and state, but unfortunately.... many right winger nitwits don't understand that or accept it. If you recall... Christine "I'm not a witch" O'Donnell was quite amused when her Democratic opponent for the Senate in 2010 mentioned that point of separation of church and state in one of their debates. She had no such understanding or belief at the time and probably still doesn't.

In fact, it seems that the entire conservative party (Repug/TEApug) have a completely different interpretation and understanding of most of the Constitution as well as the teachings of Jesus Christ. They have definitely adopted some very twisted interpretations of what it means to "Do unto the least of these" and caring for the sick and needy.

Hi Judy

I agree completely.... I have always tried to respect other people's religions and in fact, have always enjoyed learning about other religions and discussing their beliefs. I don't like to see falsehoods and lies being spread about anyone's religion... whether it's Islam or Mormonism.

I've always tried to stand up against bigots making stupid statements about Muslims being terrorists, etc. And having a personal knowledge of the LDS or Mormon religion... I don't like seeing the falsehoods and rumors spread about it either. So I know what you mean about... attack my beliefs, the gloves come off.

@Lakeisha

I agree.... Repugs/TEApugs do worship an entirely different GOD than Jesus Christ, whom they only pay lip service to. But let's face it, the rightwing nuts have wildly skewed beliefs about everything.... from politics to economics to religion.

And yes... they do like to get down and sling mud and they have some expert mud slinging HOGS like Karl Rove, Lush Limpbrain, and Sean InSanity.

@Rhazes

Yes... it's pretty clear now that GOP = Hypocrite.

@DISGUSTED

That is so true.... Mutt Robme is trying to be everything to everyone, he's trying to please all of the people, all of the time... which apparently he hasn't heard is IMPOSSIBLE. So he tells each separate group, ie. the Teapugs, the Evangelicals, the moderate GOP, and now the Independents what he thinks they want to hear... and he's hoping that what he told one group won't get back to the other groups that won't like it.

That might have been possible back in the day when his father ran for office, which is probably where he learned his politician skills. But of course it doesn't work today with social media and cameras and recording devices literally everywhere.

I also think that these other powers that be are trying to influence Robme to bring up the religious issues, but he have tried to avoid that for the reason that he doesn't want to bring his religion into the discussion either.

He has been aware from the beginning that his religion is not an asset for him as far as the Evangelicals in the GOP base are concerned. So he's been trying to keep religion a non-issue and focus on what he thinks is his superior attribute of business and economics. But that won't be for long, not with more truth of his Vulture capitalist experience coming out.

@suzette

Yes.... I am aware of the GOP's constant obstruction and conspiracy to prevent President Obama from accomplishing anything. I am also aware that even when they are confronted by their own hypocrisy... it has no effect on their behavior, in fact they seem to relish it being pointed out. They are truely without any conscience or scruples.

But we must still continue to call them out, point out their utter hypocrisy and absolute lies over and over. Eventually it will start to become evident to the voting public who will decide they've had enough. In fact... I think considering the popularity of Congress at this point is proof that the public is finally waking up and catching on to their obstruction and preventing anything being accomplished to move the country forward.

I think the TEApugs in Congress have finally pushed things too far and brought awareness of the really regressive plans that the GOP is proposing for the country... like turning Medicare into a voucher program and repealing Social security, the right to choose, etc.

I still believe that we have to stand for what is right, stand for the interests of the majority and the 99%, and not lower ourselves to their level of hypocrisy and deceit... or we are no better than they are. But I'm not by any means... suggesting that we wimp out and roll over and let them have their way. HELL NO!

@Viewer

I think the point being made was that "personal religious beliefs" should remain personal and not be forced by anyone on anyone else. The only time it would be relevant to come out in a political campaign was if a candidate did intend on imposing their beliefs on the country... like Santorium seemed to imply he specifically planned to do.

Or as the religious right in the GOP wants and is trying to do with all of their legislative efforts to interfer with right to choose, as well as their efforts to stand in the way of equal marriage rights, etc.

I agree that in those cases, voters do need to know so they can vote against them if they oppose those positions.

@Crackhead

A legitimate discussion of religion is one thing... as long as it doesn't include misinformation and lies being told about that religion or about one's beliefs. That is the only thing I've opposed regarding a discussion of religion and particularly Mormonism.

I even offered early on to answer questions about the religion, because I was hoping to prevent misinformation and falsehoods being spread. I foolishly thought that the progressives in here would be more interested in learning the truth about Mormonism instead of resorting to believing lies from unreliable sources. I was disappointed to find out I was wrong in some cases, but fortunately not in others. Some have finally started asking me some questions which I'm trying to answer as completely as I can.

And you seem to be one of those who enjoy posting links to sites that are only spreading misinformation. Whether you are doing it just for fun or not, it's just adding to the confusion and suspicion about things where there doesn't need to be. So I have to tell you, you are not helping matters in regards to bringing a better understanding of the Mormon religion, but I suspect that is not your intention anyway.

But like you, I have also studied other religions and yes... I understand that most people in other Christian religions don't understand how the Bible came about. That the Bible in the form that we know it now, a bound volume of separate books written by the ancient prophets and apostles did not exist until those separate writing were collected and bound together. That these writings originally were created separately by their various authors, written over a great expanse of time and even location.

This lack of that knowledge about how the Bible came into existence is why so many Christians misunderstand that admonition at the end of Revelations about adding or taking away from the "prophesy of the book". They think the book being referred to is the Bible in it's entirety, not simply the Book of Revelations. Hopefully I can bring some better understanding to some of those misconceptions also.

@suzette-3194003, RE: (Comment #1.8)

the repubs in the supreme court started this "citizens united". we saw what romney did to his competitors before he became the "nominee".

Strictly speaking, Romney was not responsible for the attack ads against his GOP opponents. They were done by the Super-PACs, and the Super-PACs cannot legally interact with any of the candidates they are supporting. Romney could complain about and/or beg a Super-PAC not to continue an ad, but the Super-PAC is not obligated to constrain its actions to coincide with the candidates wishes.

Nevertheless, I'm inclined to agree that Romney approved the attack ads against his opponents since he din't complain about them much.

@DScully-2892243, RE: (Comment #1.10)

I say NO.... and just because the Repugs do it, doesn't make it right....

In general, if a candidate want to refer to his/her own religion, religious beliefs, or what impact his/her religious beliefs will have on him/her as a politician, I have absolutely no problem with that. (JFK and the Catholic Church is the most poignant example I'm aware of. Obama and the Philly speech, where he talked about the limitations of his relationship with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, amongst other things, is the only other example I'm really aware of.)

As far as bringing up another candidate's religious beliefs, the only context I can think of where it would be acceptable is if there is some indication from that candidates history or statements made which indicate that the candidate would likely violate the Establishment Clause, thereby violate the US Constitution. Other than that one consideration, I agree with you, Two wrongs don't make a right.

@Lakeisha, RE: (Comment #1.16)

i think they have the wrong God...

the G.O.D. they praise is Gold...Oil...and Drugs!!!

I would make a slight modification to the above, which I think would make it more correct:

The G.O.D. they praise is Gold, Oil, and Drug-money!

The GOP is against drugs, but they suffer from greed for the Drug Money, much of which would go away if drugs were legal.

chuck,

this isn't a perfect world we live in, it is the REAL WORLD.

technically, i agree. romney is not responsible for the super-pac ads, at least he says he's not. he made a very big deal about that when he did not want to criticize an add that his super-pac made against President Obama, WHERE THEY LIED. romney CLEARLY does not care what the super-pacs do, as long as he WINS. he only comments about a negative ad or or about a newspaper article when asked SPECIFICALLY about it (forced to do so), and then he says, "i haven't seen it", "i haven't read the newspaper today". he makes a mealy-mouthed comment to stop all the negative talk about him. he only does it because he thinks it serves him to do so.

you are right that mitt and his super-pacs cannot interact. but i am sure he has found a way around this incovenient silly little rule.

otherwise, i really believe that he has entitlement issues that prevent him from feeling empathy for others, and, if left unchecked without fear of retribution, there is nothing he would not do or say to demonize and undermine President Obama and to win this election.

its all right to say horrible things and lie about our president, but don't return the favor to mitt, because mitt doesn't want anyone to know the truth about his governorship, his time at bain, AND MOST OF ALL HIS RELIGION.

so far, he's done a pretty good job of avoiding those issues.

can't wait for the debates between President Obama and mitt-flop.

drillbaby,

your post #1.32.

so the "fact" that you say most americans believe that our President is a muslim, MAKES IT TRUE?

i'll give the repubs this much-when they set out to try to destroy the reputation of a democrat, they are VERY GOOD AT IT, especially a black President.

we all know what polls in the southern states show. these are the states of the "southern 'states rights' democratic party", the "dixiecrats" where their motto was "segregation for ever". these are the democrats who turned to the repub party in the 1960's when President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act into law.

black liberation theology is a part of the liberation theology that originated from the catholic theologians in the 1950's. about 50 black pastors started the "contemporary black liberation" out of the need and desire to liberate black people from political, social, economic and religious tyranny.

i see nothing wrong with african americans worshipping IN THEIR OWN WAY, to make christianity REAL FOR THEM.

african americans saw christianity as long being associated with slavery and segregation, and anyone who has lived in the south, and is honest will tell you that is the truth. i can understand why not all african americans, depending on how slavery and other racist issues have affected them, might not want to worship in a "white church". when i lived in savannah georgia from 1973 to 1975, the church i went to discouraged african americans from coming to this church. the minister said-"they have their own church, they worship differently than we do". when they came to worship there, pastor directed them to another church.

whether or not we like to admit it, our history in regard to african americans and slavery and racist attitudes in virtually every area is horrific. i understand why they might want the comfort and solace that worshipping with like-minded people can bring. they have a right to worship the way they want without being referred to as "muslim" (not that there is anything wrong with being muslim). if THEY ARE NOT MUSLIM, IF THEY ARE CHRISTIAN, WE SHOULD REFER TO THEM AS THEY ARE.

President Obama has said he is a christian, yet you won't take him at his word, because the repub party and the baggers have done a very good job of selling this story. i'm sure you were very pleased when trump forced the issue of the birth certificate, and when President Obama showed it, YOU ALL DON'T BELIEVE HIM.

I'LL PUT A CHRISTIAN UP AGAINST A MORMON ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

President Obama has said he is a christian, yet you won't take him at his word, because the repub party and the baggers have done a very good job of selling this story.

Hi suzette!

Good posts! It's not a very hard job to sell "crap" when you've got hateful people clamoring to buy. Mormons are not Christians. The issue is *not* about whether our President is a Christian since so many pastors know what it is about. The Muslim progaganda is for those who care about religion more than character. Romney has none. He is a Mormon Bishop which most of the minions, Mormon and non-Mormon, know nothing about.

@suzette,

I don't take him at his word when his self proclaimed "religious mentor" for 20 years has come out and said he was Muslim and that he converted him to Black Liberation Theology. He said Obama only came to tolerate Christianity. Look into Ed Klein's book and his audio tapes from Jeremiah Wright. Get your heads out of the sand and stay away from the Kool-Aid.

Personally, I could care less about Obama's religious beliefs. I care about his Economic beliefs and Black Liberation Theology's economic beliefs are rooted in socialism, communism and marxism. That bothers me.

@suzette,

Fine, I'll put a Mormon up against a Muslim trying to make the American public believe that he is Christian any day of the week.

It's kind of funny. I have a neighbor that's a Union plumber and I mean a hard core Union plumber. He votes Democrat every day and twice on Thursdays. He won't even vote for Barack Obama. When I asked, "Why?". He said, "He's Muslim." Obama can't even convince his base he's Christian.

Hi Ethelouise

I know... I totally agree and have said the same myself. The religions of neither candidate, nor lack there of, should have anything to do with their consideration for the job. Especially if neither intend to force their beliefs on citizens with their policies. Plans to do that should be the only concern.

Unfortunately.... the GOP have typically made a point of bringing religion into their campaigns by claiming their superior Christianity... which is yet to be seen on all accounts. But the only points of consideration and concern for most of us is their political policies, their economic policies, their foreign policies, etc. These are the only things that would have any effect on the country as a whole.

So the fact that Mutt Robme has the skewed opinion that rich guys like himself are the job creators and they need more huge tax cuts that will only increase the deficit without creating any jobs. That Robme has plans to implement Paul Ryan's budget and make medicare a voucher program. Following the GOP's agenda to roll back women's rights to choose and to repeal health care reform. Those are only some of the reasons we have to keep Robme out of the White House.

@Rachael

I'm not aware of that ever being a belief, that interracial marrying is a sin. I have had a number of friends in the church who were interracial couples.... and it's never been a problem. I have also dated men of many different races while I was in the church... no probs. There are also people of all races and many different parts of the world who join the church.

Of course, my experiences have been while living either in California or Utah. Interracial relationships might be looked down on in other parts of the country where there is more prejudice against that sort of thing... but those would be associated with the societal mores of that area.... not with church teachings. The only type of marriage that the church does have a problem with and consider a sin are same sex relationships/marriages.

@Crackhead

He needs to make a public statement that he won't let religion influence government policy decisions.

I know I've said this before a long while back... but there is very little risk of Robme letting HIS religion specifically influence government policies. The LDS church have always had a very healthy respect for "separation of church and state".

The reason being that they don't want to be forced to live by another faith, and want to continue worshipping freely their religion without interference. So they recognize the importance of both freedom of religion as well as separation of religion from government.

The only danger there is with Robme getting the White House, besides his economic and tax policies being a double up of GW Moron's, is the rabid influence of the Repug/TEApug agenda to roll back social programs to the 1800s. To eliminate women's rights to choose, Social Security, Medicare, and the ACA. The only policies Americans have to fear from Robme are those that the GOP and Teaparty will be forcing him to go along with.

sorry to burst your poor widdle bubble drillbaby - but MOST AMERICANS don't give a SH IT.

@canary,

Absolutely right. I could care less the President is Muslim as long as he's gone come January. I believe like most Americans, "It's the economy stupid!"

@CosmicChuck

I would generally agree with you about candidates talking about their own religious experiences or faith, if they were sincere... and their policy decisions actually complemented their religious convictions.

Unfortunately... these candidates who most strongly promote their Christianity... make policies that in no way match the teachings of Jesus Christ and simply show what complete hypocrites they are.

Not to mention that their usual purpose for promoting their religious beliefs is to try to imply that their opposition is not as religious or deserving of voter support. This is most often how the topic of religion has been typically used among the GOP and particularly in respects to President Obama.

Thus in the case of these reasons for bringing religion into the mix, it is best left out on all sides.

@Kathe

It's not a very hard job to sell "crap" when you've got hateful people clamoring to buy. Mormons are not Christians.

I've said this once if I've said it a million times.... MORMONS ARE CHRISTIANS! I know this personally... I am a Christian, I was a Christian while I was a Mormon. Everyone in The church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints prays in the name of Christ, worship Christ, etc. All teaching and family life revolves around following Christ's teachings. I don't know what else has to be said to convince some people.

I'm not sure what your requirements are for someone to be considered Christian, but Mormons believe that Heavenly Father chose His Son, Jesus Christ, in the pre-earth life and sent Him to earth to be our Savior. They believe in Jesus Christ, follow His teachings, and repent when we commit sins, His Atonement, or sacrifice, can wash us clean of our sins and make us worthy to return to God's presence. Christ's sacrifice and Resurrection also allow us to overcome physical death. Every one of us will be resurrected just like Christ was and live forever in perfected bodies after we leave this life.

Is that sufficient for them to be considered Christian in your view? If you want to know more of what Mormons really believe about Jesus Christ... you can find it at this link: http://www.lds.org/plan/jesus-christ-is-the-way?lang=eng

It's a site by the LDS church and all about the LDS church and everything they believe from A to Z.

You are right... it's not hard to sell crap when there are hateful people clamoring to buy it... especially at sites only giving out lies. I mistakenly thought most of those people would only be the Evangelicals on the conservative side who are close minded bigots... not the liberal people in this site who claim to be open to the truth. Maybe that is just a pretense on the part of some.

He is a Mormon Bishop which most of the minions, Mormon and non-Mormon, know nothing about.

Obviously most Non Mormons don't know anything about Bishops, among many other things... except the lies and falsehoods they accept as truth. But I'm not sure why you think Mormons wouldn't know anything about Mormon Bishops. I do... and they are basically the equivalent to a Pastor. They are the head of an LDS congregation and oversee their spiritual welfare and concerns, etc.

By the way, while Robme used to be a Bishop, I don't think he is currently. Leadership positions in the LDS church such as Bishops, etc. are not usually a life long commitment. They are instead temporary and volunteer callings for which the members are not paid or reimbursed in any way.

@DB

Your head is full of crap and so is the head of your plumber friend.... his name wouldn't be Joe, would it? I hope you have a good long time commiserating over the next 4 years about how "Muslim" President Obama is... when he is re-elected for a second term.

Yeah.... President Obama has certainly been throwing his power and support behind Black Liberation... considering how many in the Black community are still unemployed and all. The Blacks in the country are just about ready to take over the entire country.

NOT... NUMBSKULLS!

@DScully,

I was just answering the question Ed asked. Everyone knows Romney is Mormon. There is this mystery about Obama's religion, much of it self created. I would say there is a large percentage of Americans that believe he is Muslim. Do Dems really want to make religion an issue? I don't know. Like I said, I could care less if the President is Muslim as long as he's gone come January.

Let's all remember, It's the economy, stupid.

I was just answering the question Ed asked. Everyone knows Romney is Mormon.

Hmmm....no everyone thinks Romney is mormon but we know he doesn't keep one opinion for for very long. We know that what he claims to believe is always what he really believes.....maybe he juust says he's mormon like he just says he's severely conservative

it's time to get those left wing conspiracy engines people on the right are always complaining about to get started........

@CynicalCitizen,

Like I've said, I don't care that the President is Muslim. It's the economy, stupid.

HI again Elizabeth

Yes... I have seen some references to Kolob, if that is what your question was about planets. I have heard of Kolob mentioned in scripture in the Book of Abraham. But it has never been a main topic of discussion in church teachings other than the study of that book of scripture, I've had to do some research into the topic of Kolob to refresh my memory. It's not really something that is discussed to any great degree within the church and is really a side issue.

It doesn't have alot to do with the main doctrines of the church or what members concentrate on in their worship of God or Jesus Christ on a daily basis. It's also a bit confusing... as it's a complicated topic pertaining to time and space encompassed within the the universe of God's creation.
But to explain it as simply as I can from what I understand about it.

Mormons believe that God created the entire Universe, which encompasses many solar systems in addition to ours. I don't know if this is different from the beliefs of other religions as I think most consider God the creator of the entire universe. Within these solar systems are many planets, some of which are similar to our Earth and others that are more like the other planets in our solar system.

Anyway, the planet that is closest to where God and Jesus Christ reside in what most call Heaven and what Mormons call the Celestial Kingdom is called Kolob.... and it apparently regulates the passage of time as set forth by God during his creation of the universe. This was apparently revelation that was given to Abraham... of the Old Testament. Does that explain things for you?

drill,

like the repubs in washington, you sure are making a huge deal out of the idea that you think our president is a muslim, even though you say you don't care, as long as he is not re-elected.

this is a story that repubs and baggers and racists (not saying you are a racist) have pushed, and those who have pushed the idea of our President being a muslim, do so becuase they know it will raise fear in some american people, and they (you) want that fear to spill over into the voting booth.

i love how you pretend to be innocent: i don't care if he is muslim or not. yet it is very important to you that even though you don't believe it (ha!), you want us to know that "everybody" else does. or i suppose it is possible that you don't believe he is muslim, but you sure love to keep talking about it, and keeping that possibility open.

we know people like you exist. we hear about it every day-and the very sad part of that is this: the repubs in washington are leading and feeding this story to undermine our President and make voters afraid.

i am ashamed of the repubs in our country who deliberately slander our president.

Sen,

i agree, but the repubs shouldn't lie about the President being muslim (not that there is anything wrong with being muslim) when he is a christian, that goes without saying.

the repubs have told so many lies about President Obama, and baggers and repubs/conservatives believe them. now this birther crap is coming up again, which doesn't surprise me.

repubs should tread very lightly on the topic of President Obama and his birth place, and his religion, because super-pacs will not hesitate to bring up romney and his mormonism.

i wish they would just stop lying.

Suzette 2.1 : I agree with you. The repubs are becoming less and less popular in America because of these attitudes. It is shame that we as citizens allow these people to do to our President. I think a new law should be made to stop this.

sen,

repubs would find a loophole.

SUZETTE - Good luck on getting the truth out of ANY politician.From what I have seen,they all lie.So why should I believe any of them ?

ted,

neither party is perfect, far from it.

as far as i am concerned the democratic party is the closest to my ideals. the republicans have absolutely abused the filibuster, and have used their obstructionism to make our President look like a failure, ever since he took office.

repubs LIE MORE.

and the way they have treated President Obama, and lied about him tells me how far the repubs will go to bring down a democrat (look up the trial and false imprisonment of Bob Seagelman, gov. of Alabama. brought down by the bush administration, he was falsely imprisoned for 3 years because the bush administration wanted to replace him with a repub.

they do this sh!t all the time.

they aren't even ashamed or embarassed about it, instead they go after other democrats like John Edwards.

we can go back and forth, but i don't want to try to convince you of anything, and you certainly will not convince me.

we agree one thing-they all lie.

but repubs LIE MORE, and they play dirtier, all the while proclaiming their hatred for gays, abortion, and their love of guns and god.

kinda hypocritical.

SUZETTE - You are right on that one,I have to give you credit on what you said ( unfortunately I don't use credit cards ).But anyhow,I would like to see them do away with ALL political parties and have it to where the top 2 contenders run for whatever political office they're after.It's already like that in my state (Washington state).Too bad it ain't like that NATIONWIDE.

I seem to remember Richard Nixon seems to have been bu11$hitting everyone when he said he wouldn't let his Quaker beliefs about prohibition interfere with his job at president shortly before he signed the law that started the war on drugs that:

1. Squandered a over $1 trillion,
2. Criminalized about 30 million citizens, and
3. Provided a healthy source of profit for domestic terror organizations.

conservatives/baggers are the ones who want to mix religion and gov't. and in keeping with their normal way of doing things, they are accusing President Obama of doing THE VERY THING THEY WANT TO DO, MIX POLITICS AND RELIGION.

THIS IS ONE OF THE EARLIEST SIGNS OF FASCISM.

i wasn't pointing a finger at either side, suzette. i just said that it's not acceptable. well, not to me.

kv,

i don't like it either. but this is the world in which we live. the one where repubs refuse to work with President Obama, and will do everything they can to dishonor and demonize him.

i agree, it is not acceptable for either side, but we know the repubs are going to bring up Obama's birth place and his religion.

in a perfect world, this would not be an issue.

suzette, you are right. but it's a troubling issue.

kv6707, yes you are right, but you can't force your views down someone else throat, just because they are your views. Politics and religion never mix. There is no Gov't. Central Religion in this country. It is freedom of religion to worship what you believe in. Let put an end to this question once and for all, President Obama is a Christian, period, he is a citizen of this country, borned in Hawaii. He is an American, period.

steve, you're in agreement with me that politics and religion don't mix. so it seems your view is the same as mine. what am i forcing down anyone's throat? i was responding to the poll question as everyone else here. i did not mention a party, a particular religion, our president or any politician, where anyone was born and if they are a citizen or not. so what's your problem?

Pam,

romney says discussing HIS religion is not "fair game".

if he thinks he can throw dirt at President Obama and they will just take it lying down, he is WRONG.

i hope democrats insist on his tax returns, and i hope they hound him on everything the way the repubs/conservatives/baggers have hounded our President.

Suzette, Now way I see it the Re pubs have real problem brewing. How will he deal with the vast array of religions around the world? People really need to see what Mr. Romney is about. He may be able to hide his vast wealth in other places but he can not hide from the American people. See I look in the mans eyes when he talks and I see a man with many secrets. Will he if elected have a Mormon service? Many questions. Many secrets. I have all ways believed a man who has nothing to hide hides nothing. I do not trust him!

PAM - ROMNEY is not in the whitehouse so how could he get out of the whitehouse kitchen if he isn't in there to begin with ? He'll never make it there anyhow.

Ted, Good evening Hope you have great weekend. I know I said it as a grab your attention comment and i got cha LOL I hope he doesn't he will reek havoc for sure. I will probably call eveing before long been awfully tired today.

PAM - No you didn't,I just had to correct you on what you said.

Pam,

i agree, romney looks "shifty". but i still worry about all the propaganda the repubs are pushing about our President, and the redistricting and voter suppression laws that repubs have put into affect.

i worry about all the lies they are telling about President Obama.

computer hacking, voter suppression. the repubs will steal this election as they did in 2000 and 2004 if they have the chance.

they will stop at nothing.

sebastian. religion is not an opinion. it is a faith. i want to know what the candidates views are too. i do not base my opinions of their opinions on what on what their faith is. i know this happens but it shouldn't.

Right Wing Conservatives believe life starts at conception, they believe in the death penalty because they believe in an "eye for an eye" and a "tooth for a tooth." Bucky you can't compare the two.

You're correct Karen. Then there is the "reality" of politics today. Whoa are we.

Whoa is a little bit too late as the horse is off and running! The GOP PACs have made sure of that and now the GOP wants to lay blame on Obama. MIttney says he doesn't want them and has no control over what they say. and wants to talk about jobs and the economy. Than when he's asked he avoids what he would do and lays blame.

Mitt has plenty of gaffs on his own he attacked Obama because he alleged some jobs were lost because the auto bailout.....the bailout that just the week before he was taking so much credit for

I haven't noticed anything?

MD/MI Whats been happening ?

It Has Been going to a white page - cannot refresh it - it does not look like this page = Sometimes it starts on this page - but when i hit the save comment button - it goes to a white page - everything is scrambled ???? maybe it is my comp. ?????? I dont know - but it has happened before multiple times !!!

I restarted My comp. 3 times - Finally shut down for a few hours = now it is fine = so far !!!?????

I originally thought MSNBC was responsible for momentary outages. This looks more like something coming from outside their system because the problem does not effecting all areas. No problems in my area. Lots of problems in other areas.

A) There is a type of attack of lame DoS attack that re-maps domain names locally, which would account for the spotty geographic nature of the problem.

B) This can also happen if 1,000,000 connections suddenly arrive at a distributed system built for 10,000 users.

Seems to be occurring mostly right around 4:30PM when everybody's fingers are hovering over the keyboard waiting for the question to post.

Only seems to happen with the kinds of questions that GOP would find objectionable.

MSNBC would have to work with their ISP and Newsvine to figure out if it is A) or B).

It's Planet Kolob.

Kolar is a kind of toilet.

Scully's going to murder me for posting this again.

Just click here --->>> http://www.salamandersociety.com/

Oh hell! More Numbskulls... and their idiocy. If the shoe fits... guys.

Don't you mean FUGLY ?

Amen Mary I agree with you whole heartly!

That's right Mary,

i refuse to allow them to turn me into a hypocritical bigot!!!

but i do feel we should be able to discuss the policies they spew and the really Godless nature of their Characters!!!

What the Rev. Wright said was incendiary but taken in its context understandable. Injustice and inequality are not standards this country should embrace. And compared what so many [so called men of God] have said on the right, quite tame.

i agree with what Rev. Wright said, and i agree with you, 01.

America is damned according to the Evangelical right-wing when it comes to removing their sacred cows of bigotry. Many believe in sweeping Govenment change who are Dominionists. Let them see the Mormons' beliefs in their false prophets and gods. Their vote may hinge on that....oh yes....and oh no!!

Exactly Kath,

Stupid Pat Robertson Quotes

And how about these other quotes.

Gina, You are so right I believe this would be the first Mormon to heaven help us run for President and get this close. For anyone to say his church would not influence him would be like saying big oil won't influence him. I think whats fair for the goose is fair for the gander. Romney needs to be honest with the American people !

he mitt-flops and lies about everything.

Suzette, This is another very big red flag. His flip flops. How can any nation work with a man that shakes his head and changes his answer. He is fast at business decisions but dealing with foreign diplomats and the situations that arise take a man who is thoughtful and does not use knee jerk decisions. Obama is the 3:00 o'clock president and he is very thoughtful about the situations that arise.

Gina...you are right on! But we have to wonder, if lying as he does, is part of his religion.

if they can baptize jews and other religions after they die and "turn them into mormons", lying probably isn't that much of a leap.

Most Americans either believe that Barack Obama is Muslim or believe that he is a closet Muslim. At the very least they believe that he believes in Black Liberation Theology (i.e. Black American Muslim). I remember a primary in the southern states where a poll showed that over half the people thought the President was Muslim. MSNBC called it the "Toothless Primaries" to try and discredit this belief. The fact of the matter is that it's out there.

Ask yourselves, do you really want to make either sides religious beliefs an issue in this upcoming election.

Personally, I'll put Mormon up against Muslim any day of the week.

drill,

i don't care what most americans believe.

i don't care if President Obama is a muslim, but i believe he is a christian. he might have some muslim beliefs, i don't know and i don't care.

grover norquist (the tax guy) is a muslim, and that created dissention between him and w. bush from 2000 to 2008.

all the repubs know that grover is a muslim, they don't like it, but they tolerate grover because of his position on taxes.

grover norquist says that islam is compatable with the repub party, repubs don't agree with him on that, but that is how grover norquist see's it.

conservative=islam=compatability.

Most americans don't believe he is a muslim closet or otherwise. Most republicans do but a great many republicans choose to believe Obama is foreign so.......the black liberation bs didn't work in 2008 playing the card this time is not going to work. You'll get the people who already want to see Obama dead to hate him but the rest of the country will be unmoved on that story. Haven't learned by now America doesn't hate Obama's very existence like you people do.