Yes but concealed carry is legal and he had a permit.

Carrying a loaded gun is not intent in and of itself. Most people who legally carry concealed weapons pray to God they never have to use them. At least the sane ones do.

Does any one remember Rush Limbo saying "Yes, there is a God after all" when found out that Ken Starr got special proscutor's job. We can say same to this "Thank God for this". I heard Hateful Hannity also whining about this! He has proved that he is prejudice, and acts like he is FAIR!

Mac: It was an attack!

2the.....how come you re- regs insist on using a play on your old nick? Do you become attached to it? I have no sympothy for one who thinks it is wise to carry a gun and then prays he does not have to use.....Why carry if you don't plan to use it?

yes, justice is being served. i do think zimmerman should've been charged with something, but i was thinking manslaughter. oh well the special prosecutor knows what she's doing.

Mom..

People who carry do plan on using their gun...IF they are put in a situation where they are in fear for their life, or someone else's or if they are fearful of extreme sexual aggression. When I took my CCW class, more than half the students were women.

@steve-4275226, RE:

The Fact that he left his house with a LOADED GUN, is INTENT, Period.

Not necessarily intent for murder, but certainly intent to violate the guidelines for being a Neighborhood Watch, and perhaps, intent to engage in Vigilanteism on any pretext. And possibly, intent to invoke the Stand Your Ground Law to justify homicide if it were to occur. But, there would be no way to establish that Intent beyond a reasonable doubt, much less get a conviction on it unless Zimmerman were to explicitly confess to having that Intent, which would be analogous to a death wish.

@Stormguy53, RE:

People who carry do plan on using their gun...

And that's the problem with Zimmerman having a loaded weapon in his vehicle while he was acting as a Neighborhood Watch, as it is a direct violation of the Neighborhood Watch's duties as laid out by the Neighborhood Watch Program. He should have been planning on not using a gun under any circumstances, not to ever act as a Vigilante. Once 911 is called, authority for any further action is based upon direction of Law Enforcement Officials. The Dispatcher relayed to Zimmerman that no further assistance from him was wanted, and to stay in his vehicle. Zimmerman's direct violation of the guidelines for being a Neighborhood Watch may very well be part of why he was charged with a crime more serious than Manslaughter, for he was aware of the fact that being armed would lead him to give into temptation to take the law into his own hands, given that he wanted to be a cop but was not able to qualify. If that's not depravity, then what is?

Yes but concealed carry is legal and he had a permit.

Only in the United States. In advanced nations, it is illegal to carry guns in public at all for any reason other than hunting or target shooting.

Advanced nations have a right to health care and not a right to guns.

The United States has a right to guns but lets Americans die without any access to health care.

How much proof do we need that the United States is backward anyway?

@Chuck:

Please provide a link where he was instructed to stay in his vehicle.

Guidelines for a Neighborhood watch program are not legally enforceable...they are guidelines, not laws.

Trust me, if I am carrying and some thug (that does not infer race of any sort, it refers to a criminal) endangers myself or any of my family to the point where I think our lives are at risk, I will shoot to kill.

IF the watch program was registered with the police, which it must be to be a "true" watch program, papers signed state may not carry a weapon of any kind.

Listen to the 911 tapes. The officer told him do not leave your vehicle, after he was told not to follow.

The officer said nothing of the kind................do some homework will ya for once!!!

Larry:

Please provide a link that shows he was told to stay in his vehicle.. don't come back and say we have to do the work ourselves. You made the claim...now back it up.

Ok..so he carried a weapon in violation of the watch program guidelines...kick him off the watch program. HOWEVER, IT IS NOT A CRIME. He had a legal permit to do so.

Now he's been charged with murder.

Gee...no more saying he was innocent, eh?

Poor, poor, righties.

@chris...

Which righty said he was innocent? and just as a side note, I know it is a minor detail and those normally don't matter to lefties, but he has not been convicted of anything...he has only been charged.

@Larry & @ Chuck...

Still waiting on that link.

Keep hoping, stormy.

It's good to have heroes.

In other words...another lie from the left...surprise surprise.

So what are you on vacation from...Barnum and Bailey's, or Big Apple?

Eugenie and mika have been showing a clear support for the zimmerman is innocent team, those are righties

"Are you following him?"....."yeah we don't need you to do that" says the 911 operator that shows he was not unwarned about following the alleged support however he did anyway. The prosecutor will likely use this to establish his intent to pursue and the fact that he was armed, which neighborhood watch does not allow.......which in fact he was never part of to begin with despite claims to the contrary.........all that goes to show he was not taking the common, accepted, and responsible patrolling of his community

That although he can claim he wanted to protect his community although he didn't live there he did not want to do it responsibly.......you can't deny his actions were irresponsible

The prosecution is going to use these I suspect to show his statement of mind, that he knew or reasonably should have known that his actions were not good, not responsible and he did those things anyway which they will need to show for murder2

They will use it to say he disregarded instructions that someone out to responsibly patrol and protect their community logically would have followed

CC...

I read their posts as being on the Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty team...of which I am also a member.

For every one of your points, there is an alternative scenario which LEGALLY allows for it to have happened.

I have yet to read a post from any person on this board who has said he is absolutely innocent and if they were to say that, I would tell them the same thing...there is not enough known evidence to say that he was either. It is doubtful that either the the defense or the prosecutor will release any additional information about the case until trial. That is when the jury of his peers will get all the information and make a decision...which both sides will have to accept.

The issue is whether Zimmerman is "innocent" because of an immoral law condemned by many Americans and universally condemned by the citizens of advanced nations outside of the United States, as the second amendment American gun fetish is condemned and the United States looked down upon by citizens of advanced nations, and Americans considered to be backward and inferior.

I read their posts as being on the Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty team...of which I am also a member.

hmm....you couldn't be trying to suggest that I'm not would you?? No....that would baseless, right?

In fact I am injecting no value support or belief of any side I am commenting on the likely legal reality. I am saying the prosecutors will use this evidence in this way nothing more I'm not sure why you seem to connect that with support. This is not about whether I believe he is quilty or innocent, this is about the way I believe the state will try say he did the crime

Storm it's becoming clear to me you're not quite knowledgable, not an insult just observation because you seem to continually not get the point I'm making whic shouldn't be that hard to understand who has some basic knowledge

you continue to assert that the actually portions of the event I mentioned(the 911 "we don't need you do that, and codes for neighborhood watch programs) to show state of mind

they clearly are not crimes which is why no one is claiming they are, what you're not getting is that to prove murder2 they have show a disregard for public safety. They need to prove he was reckless and this aformentioned information may help them greatly to do so

the prosecution I predict will use this to undermine this idea he was innocent of any wrong doings and that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, the tape seems to say otherwise

when you build a case pyschological information and evidence is important to support physical evidence.....motive......

The prosecutor will attack Zimmerman's story and this idea that he was just out being a responsible member of the community. The tape allows them to destroy any claim that he could never known what could have happened.

so you need to see that it is not about the individual peices of evidence in this discussion it is how they will be linked together

again these things are not crimes in themselves but that doesn't matter because there is no chance the prosecution will say otherwise

lastly the records are being shielded and will likely remain so for the duration of this case as to not start a media circus which has a great negative impact on legal procedures........if the media dogs are around all over them discussing the information this will create a spectical and a firestorm which will make everyone's job harder. They are doing this to protect the already slightly damaged integrity

CC;

Quite the opposite...i have said on multiple occasions that I thought you were presenting a fairly balanced discussion on the matter. There is no veiled implication to anything else...that is just your paranoia creeping in.

Regarding your "observation" that I am not knowledgeable, I take that as a personal insult without foundation. The discussions on this board have been in relation to what other people on this board have been posting...not what the prosecution may or may not be doing. Most, if not all, of my posts have been based on known facts about this case and not supposition. What exactly are you suggesting that I am not knowledgeable about?

Evidence can be linked together to look both ways, and that is my point. As I have always said...none of us know all of the evidence and it will be up to the jury to make the final decision. If he is found to be guilty, put him behind bars. If he is found to be not guilty...leave him alone.

@John:

There is nothing immoral about a law which allows a citizen to defend himself or others if there is an imminent threat to their life. It is immoral NOT to allow someone that right.

Let's wait it's a little late for that don't ya think......as we all know that never happens. It just does not happen, innocent until proven guilty for better or for worse doesn't apply to the court of public opinion

KILL NOW why wait he's guilty! Case closed!

KILL NOW why wait

Because that's the law.....you know like the one that happens in a court....or at least is supposed to happen

I'm going to assume you're kidding and are not echoing any genuine let em die vigilante activity. What if someone wanted to say kill Trayvon Martin, he's black in a hoody he's gonna rob someone eventually....he's guilty at some point why wait? No vigilante garbage. Do you want justice in society or just violence? One can't claim to want something like that and claim to want "justice".

case closed.

I was. Just tired of all BS from the GOP and their puppet masters and followers. What the President is going though is a travesty as well. I'm sorry for being dogmatic. CC. I am sorry it took so long for me to respond I was busy.......

Romney will never try to play that his "christian" beliefs permit his flip flops or blatant falsehoods because he doesn't want his base to have to confront the fact that he is mormon or as many of them would probably say "devil worshipper"

The cylon agent that is Mitt Romney can not afford to allow people to know what he really believes because he knows he'll lose. So remember ladies Mitt would "defend a women's right to choose" but has "always been pro-life" and that he shake things up so that women won't learn what he really thinks until the general election.......cheesy grits yal.........so cheesy

I think you have a good point here Cynical, but even if he avoids the "troublesome" things you're describing I still don't think he can beat Obama.

People just can't relate to Romney and he's not a very likable person, at least not to me. I think first impressions are pretty powerful and I didn't get a good vibe from Romney at all. He's just a little bit too slick for me.

I think people need to like their President as a person in order to be able to trust them. I think Obama has a lot more charisma and is definitely more of a "people person" than Romney. That alone pretty much puts Obama back in the White House.

i am hopeful President Obama will win this election.

but...i worry about the voter disenfranchisement of millions of voters, and the redistricting in repub led states.

repubs know they can't win on their ideas, and they also know that a large voter turnout benefits the democratic party, which is why they have put their partisan selfishness above the voters, as they did in 2000 in florida.

Suzette,

I wiash he can tell that to my wife, and daughters! They would bite his head off! Not really, but they would definitely tell him what they think about Willard .

Obama isn't going to be winning with any great ideas either, but it doesn't matter at this point because Romney is no competition for him whatsoever.

Even if all things were equal the incumbent always has an advantage because they don't have to start campaigning until the candidate for the other side is chosen.

People don't like Mitt Romney because no one know who he is. No one in America knows what's at Romney's core other than say anything you think you can get votes from. He seems disconnected which is compounded by his blatant false narratives on how he has been a working wage earner, he's trying to say that he has worked for what he has like every average joe and the fact is he never in his life his been middle class. I don't see how he can relate to any of our issues. There's nothing wrong with wealth and privelage Romeny's problem is that he is pretending to be something he isn't. The problem is his lying not family history.

There's nothing wrong with wealth and privelage Romeny's problem is that he is pretending to be something he isn't.

Exactly, and he seems to be an expert at it.

he's trying to say that he has worked for what he has like every average joe and the fact is he never in his life his been middle class.

Nobody in Washington is middle class. I think he has worked for what he has to a great degree. You don't have to be an "average Joe" to be hard-working. The problem he has is that "he won't apologize for being successful" yet at the same time he pretends to know what it's like to struggle.

Dude people like Mittens used to be known as the idle rich for a reason, they did very little if any work and went jetting around the world for nothing more then strawberries. Reagan lied when he told the dumbest block of voters that the wealthy worked hard for their money.

Nobody in Washington is middle class. I think he has worked for what he has to a great degree. You don't have to be an "average Joe" to be hard-working. The problem he has is that "he won't apologize for being successful" yet at the same time he pretends to know what it's like to struggle.

Well I disagree in a way about his work ethic. I think he has taken his father's money and made more off it. That is his work, so he did do that unlike say Donald Trump who has.....not been so successful with his inheritance. My point is that going to harvard, living as a "missionary" in France for two years, buying his first mansion and getting Bane Capital together all those things he would not have been able to do without the privelage of the Romney name. All he is has been able to develop because of his father's good fortune yet he seems to be against saying that. It appears to me that Mitt Romney seems to deny that he success has been tied to the privelage he was born with. But all in all it's his cold cylon like demeanor and pretending that I do not like. I don't have a clue what he believes, his values are an enigma, a mystery because he keeps changing his identity every few years like computer software. He just upgrades to the last operating system.

Also all of congress in privelaged and very wealthly, most of them are wealthly former business execs and lawyers but a lot of them didn't start that way. So in terms of how Obama connects with the middle class for example vs. Romney I think it's important to remember Obama hasn't been middle class in a long time but Romney never has.

Middle class people work for their money very hard til(if) they find success and become wealthy. Now once you have money you do most of your work to keep it through investments in companies, funds, and congresspeople

Teabag the Republican:Mitt has never, Had...a hole in his sock..hungry for more than a few hours...A ride...Worry about the power bill...A bad tooth...Being cold because he couldn't afford heating oil...A place to stay....Turned away for no health insurance...No Air conditioning...Phone bills....A broken zipper... Making a payment....Losing a job. So here is a guy who says he knows about the people. Obama will tear him to pieces and maybe put him in tears, And for the first time in is life he may feel something more because of his own inability to connect the difference of what it means not to be a 1%er, I can hear it now, all he may be able to say is I, I, I .in every thing this President will say to him will make him wilt like a rose that was picked, and is now in the full strength of the noonday sun.

@suzette-3194003, RE:

he (Mitt)has felt comfortable lying about many things.

Just like he claims to know more about how to create (the conditions to create) jobs from his experience in the private sector. As a Corporate Raider though, Mitt wasn't in the business of creating capital; instead, he made his money by extracting capital, usually in the form of LBOs using other people's money, never risking his own wealth, just that of the Raided Businesses, almost always leading those businesses into bankruptcy with the creditors hung unable to get any recompense. occasionally leaving the taxpayers on the hook. And Romney and his Bain Capital cronies laughed all the way to the bank while minimizing their taxable income and the rate paid on the reduced income.

For the few cases where Bain Capital had a "success story," such as with Staples, that's not taking into account all of the mom & pop office supply stores that couldn't compete and the ripple effect that had on the local communities where those mom & pop stores where located. Loss of taxable income, loss of income for the stores those moms & pops did business with, etc.

And to top all of the above off, Romney is just another Supply-Sider who is willfully ignorant to the fact that Supply Side Economics concentrates the wealth at the top, leaving the middle class with less and less disposable income, which is vital to maintaining a healthy economy.

We need economic policies that will drive continued economic recovery, so that the Middle Class will begin to thrive again, and those driven into poverty become able to bootstrap themselves back towards the Middle Class. And those already in Poverty, become less impoverished.

The last thing we need is a backslide before we fully recover from the Great Recession and be drug deeper into the ditch into the 2nd Great Depression. The shape of the Global Economy is so shaky right now that the World cannot afford us Americans to elect a President who believes in Supply Side Economics either, so reelecting Obama is essential.

@ Suzette:

were you worried about the redistricting when the Democrats were the ones doing it? That wouldn't be hypocrisy coming from the left again would it?

I am against gerrymandering of congressional districts from either side. Districts should be drawn along county lines based on population.

Joe McCarthy didn't care about Neo-Nazis, neither does West... They are probably his biggest fans...

The TEA Party is following the Fascist Playbook perfectly...

Allen West is insane. If he's going to talk about Commies in the Dem Party, he'd better talk about the Nazis in the Rep Party. Turnabout's fair play!

CC...

I think the prosecutors aimed high for a reason... Once the Stand Your Ground defense is removed by the judge, Zimmerman and his lawyer will come looking for a deal... By aiming high, a plea bargain for Man One, which is what the prosecutor really wants, becomes possible... The trial will include the possibility of the jury choosing Man One instead of Murder Two, so they can adjust it down if they feel it's appropriate...

Don't forget the Hate Crime modifier... That could be another part of the plea bargain...

Cynicalcitizen, They usually set the bar high. Most likely he'll go down on manslaughter, not murder II. Manslaughter is on the table for the jury. That is normal procedure.

I am glad it is over and he is in custody. I was getting concerned about the zeitgeist in the country.

Practice, practice, practice...

David...a poem?

romney / palin 2012 = <S> !!!!!

Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum!

MD gotum?

George has got a hoodie on! BANG! Oops I thought he was a threat!

I thought sanitorum wanted to be the veep.

Allen West cannot stick to the script;
Most pundits would convey that he's flipped;
He can't help but see Reds
Hiding under our beds -
For a battle of wits, he's ill-equipped...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/mitt-romney-lilly-ledbetter-act_n_1417913.html

Sorry, Romney, you don't know much!

West even less.

West is certain Commies all are Progressive,
His paranoia is truly excessive...
He can't help being frenetic -
His problem's genetic -
Being a Conservative jerk is regressive...

He's more like a Nazi that is progressive!

America's a garden where the seeds
One carefully plants, waters and feeds -
But you can't see the beauty
'Til you're done with the duty
Of removing those Republican weeds...

MJB, Lies,lies, lies, but the best one out of Robme's mouth came this AM: He was angry about Obama's War on Women! LOL No, I'm not kidding!

Right out of the Karl Rove strategy book: attack your opponent with your own weakness!

David, Do I ever love this poem! Kudos!!!!!

Indeed!

Are they charging Martin with a crime? Why would he need the "stand your ground" defense?

Duh - Da-da-da - DAH - DAH - DUH -DUH !!!! Whhhaaaaaattt ??????? Some People Are Just Plain Fools !!! Just Sayin' !!!!!!

He was being followed by an unknown man. He has every right to stand his ground. You haven't been paying attention. But what can we ecpect from the right?

Wow- I'm in need of someone else with logic in their arguments. Everyone seems to be arguing that Martin needs to use the stand your ground defense. Hint- victims don't need a defense. If you are claiming he needs a defense...

Dit-Dit-dit-Dit-Dah - Duh — Doop Da-Doop da Doop- Dit = PING !!!!!!

Screeeeeeeeeeech my tires are spinning help me please.

I use to pick up hitch hikers?.....Now WHAT!? The man levelled his thumb.....DOORS

Doors/Riders on the Storm

http://youtu.be/i_eQGsbHhDo

Color me wrong. I thought the stupid arguments had already been used up. The ones immediately above are just as logical as those before. Larry- you are at least a step over your brethren.

You got it! YES!

Busby, We're there. The evil duo has to be defeated. We need to teach them that money can't buy the presidency. They can spin and lie till the cows come home, but they will not win if people are paying attention to what is true.

And what is true is that Romney is for the 1% and Obama is for us all. Romney and the Ryan plan would destroy this country.

If make fun of Mitt for so many reason but the Elephant in the room is he has no qualifications.

He is very evil and will deny the only program he ever did that was any good, I wonder if he had anything to do with it. Health care in Massachusetts.

xxxooo, He sure didn't win their hearts with his jobs record! That was really bad! The only good thing he ever did was the one he lies about!

It would be funny if it weren't so sinister: this AM he was angry about "Obama's war on women!" OMG

Now the big super pac money is rolling in to enable him to try to buy the presidency. Thanks a heap, SCOTUS!

Ahss ho, How may I help you?

@Rusty-2589429, most call centers have outsourced jobs to India. I used to work at Intuit's Tech Support Call Center in Tucson doing Tech Support predominantly for Quickbooks and occasionally for Turbo Tax (during tax season). I found out from friends of mine who still worked there after I left that a lot of their Tech Support was outsourced to India.

Nevertheless, you have the right to request a transfer to the Call Center in the USA to someone who speaks English as a first language. Even so, you might still have problems understanding the person on the other end of the line if they have a discernible accent which you have a hard time understanding. [I recall talking to people from the Deep South who I had a hard time understanding; it's certainly quite likely that some callers had a hard time understanding me. Given that I tend to pick up accents of the people I converse with a lot (e.g., Irish, Scots Highland Brogue, as well as the Bostonian "Pahk the cah," Texan "y'all," etc., I do have an advantage. But, having never spent enough time with Hillbillies or the people who live on the Outer Banks of North Carolina, or the Deep South, I am at a disadvantage there, with the exception of cases where there is overlap with Irish, Scots, or Brit accents that I did attain familiarity with.]

CC: I agree with not understanding some of the Tech Support in India, I had to call for Quickbooks help at times and it was quite frustrating, I don't do that anymore, but I agree, when you mentioned Quickbooks, it brought back memories...

Well- the point isn't that lots of entities have sourced aTech Support to India. The point being that Obama, in charge of the government, taking over the loans process, has outsourced the call center to India at the same time he criticizes "for profit" companies for moving work off shore. Thus making Obama- well- a hypocrite.

chuck

I ran a call center in the outer banks . I'm from KC. It did take a while to communicate. We sometime had to put customers on hold and my agents would always ask customers to hode on. I never got used to that one and since we were calling people from all over the country i'm sure it was confusing to them also.

I agree most people have no time to stop and smell the roses, But I totally agree with you. I HOPE you come back often to give your point of view. May I suggest you read my article on Corporate World Takeover...just click on my Avatar and scroll down, and feel free to make any comments.

Fear not the time has come, We have this blog thanks to MSNBC and Ed and social media! Also some thanks to Steve Jobs who had the endless vision and inspiration to make this happen to some degree, Come to think of it Bill Gates/Steve Wozniak too! And the US government for making the early internet and the various university's work. And all the search engines like google. And now the GOP wants to take them away from you so here you go.

http://act.demandprogress.org/letter/cispa/?akid=1306.1953214.Ym71TP&rd=1&t=3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet Thanks to them!

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/ed-roberts-altair/ Here's some nostalgia!

Indeed I agree. As Ed say's at the beginning of his show. Lets get to work! We can't afford to lose this election. Or the 99% will be slaves to the 1% for sure forever.

@Mallary J, RE: "Shoot First" laws - aka Stand Your Ground - that have been enacted in 25 states, you can thank the NRA for pushing those laws - against the advice of Law Enforcement in every case. Defensing the Second Amendment is not enough for the NRA. They want to bring back the wild West and Vigilante Justice, regardless of the fact that those laws create the possibility of criminals getting away with "perfect crimes" because they are able to claim Self-Defense under the auspices of the "Shoot First" laws.

I would really like to see a prosecutor charge the NRA with being an "Accessory to Murder" for essentially coercing State Governments to enact "Shoot First" laws against any degree of common sense.

While holding the NRA criminally liable may be a "pipe-dream," getting a civil suit for Wrongful Death to stick is much closer to being possible.

Thank you NRA

Of Course...............you would.

So you're lets see what happens yet you've declared there will be an acquittal clearly your very impartial

They won't subpoena the original state's attorney to make the case that they want to make they will simply make it.....course if they did the prosecutor will call the original homicide detective who wrote and signed an affidavit who said he thought charges should be filed.....so scoring no point with that either

People should be concerned about the already illegal executive powers from the patriot act........funny how so many self professed constitutionalists are not

CC Nice.

Cynical, If the State's Lawyers can't agree there were criminal charges that applied to the the facts and circumstances of the incident I seriously doubt 12 civilian jury members will be able to agree.

As for the defense subpoenaing the original DA, I believe his testimony would be would assist in demonstrating there is a lack of evidence supporting criminal prosecution. You would have two Government Lawyers on opposite sides of the fence. The jury would have to decide which one is right. Hard to believe they would all side with one or the other. Now on the other hand if there were criminal prosecutions for the Police and the initial DA for obstruction of justice, that would be another story, but I have yet to see anything that would indicate obstruction existed.

Due to the time frame involved, the change in the DA, the witness statements, and the physical evidence (injuries to Zimmerman) it is clear the decision to prosecute was based on nothing more than public opinion. In this case the Government may bend to the demands of the public, but the jury will not.

I'm not seein ya at tall. aka righty!

TM...I think this is something we can agree on....I am glad that Zimmerman was charged in this case....I think we also need to take what Travon's Parents' have been saying to heart and let justice take it's corse and be non violent. I really feel for Travon's parents...May God Bless them...Let's hope that the truth is revealed and violence doesn't prevail.

Let's Pray for Justice and Travon's Parents

Sometimes TAP it seems you can understand,Why can't we on politics?

Because tap drank Reagan tea and became blind to GOP failures.

Democrats in congress grow a pair and stop letting the republicans talk about them like crap? Never. They never stand up to them.

They will never stand up to them

I hope they are just bidding their time, But how much longer? Does some one have them by the balls? or what?

Unfortunately, the majority of Democrats and Republicans are far too dependent upon Corporate America for campaign finances to get reelected. The corporations usually hedge their bets by donating to candidates on both sides of the aisle. That's why we need Amendments to the Constitution which state:

• Unequivocally, that Money is not Free Speech (Buckley v. Valeo, 1948? or 1958?)
• Establish exact limits to which corporations or other organizations can be treated as if they were citizens (or people) with rights granted by the Bill of rights or considered to be persons for legal reasons in a court of law or other venue. (Prevent and/or limit repercussions of Citizens United.)

Then, and only then, will real campaign finance reform really be possible, as the money/free speech, and corporations/personhood dichotomies provide for wide-open loopholes which can all too easily lead to actions which undermine the Spirit of the Constitution.

Only after private money is taken out of politics will it be possible for our elected representatives be inclined to be representatives first rather than fund raisers in perpetual reelection mode first.. And, if the possibility of private money is going to remain, then corporations should have the same campaign donation limits as persons. (I.e., Citizens United equates a corporation with a citizen, not more than one citizen. Should not be able to have it both ways!)

P.S. click on the FAQ for info... its made this way to confuse people!

BIG EDDIE WHERE ARE YOU! YOUR OUR LAST HOPE!!!!

Rep. Alan West is acting like some bizarre reincarnation of Joe McCarthy, but worse.

Word.

While the Communist Party leaders may have stated that they consider Progressives to be allies, that does not entail that Progressives consider Communist Party members to be allies as well.

Obviously. If you're not in the communist party then you're not in the communist party. Both sides have duplicitous allies based on the crazies in society like racists, one can not say that agreeing with someone else means you agree with everything they believe. I think we should see all our countrymen communist, liberal, libertarian, hannitites, glenn beckists, republicans, white, black, cardboard(romney)......team edward, team jacob....team crazy(bachmann/west/gingrich)..... as our allies. United we stand folks. How long is it going to take our race from learning the simple truth that we are all humans, and thus are all in this together so all the name calling that we all often do is totally foolish in very end???

While there may very well be degrees of overlap between the two political philosophies, the differences are more significant. Progressives are for Capitalism with a Conscience - e.g., Socio-Economic Justice with regard to distribution of wealth, concern for maintaining ecosystem health, fair markets, etc.

The commies think the sky is blue as I'm sure everyone who isn't literally blind can see and agree is blue, does that make them communists because they agree on that point? Hmmm oh yeah people can agree on certain things and still keep their individual thought. To try and use west's logic the GOP is racist because the neo nazi group stormfront have endorsed ron paul who they claim is most in line with their "beliefs". Paul is a republican so by transitive property of politics the GOP is white nationalist. That logic is clearly outlandish and illogical. Making agree and compromise dirty words is sadly, and I don't say this lightly as it is a serious charge in my mind, unamerican. It is anti-american. It's dividing the country.

On the other hand, Communists are against Capitalism and for redistribution of wealth to be along the lines of give what you can, take what you need. That is not Justice by any means, for it encourages people to act like leeches upon society as much as they can get away with, while contributing as little as they can. Unfortunately, current laws governing welfare do encourage welfare over work when welfare pays more than work. We need Work to Welfare, such that individuals get what they can from working and are subsidized only to make the difference, rather than the current all or nothing.

I wonder if the righty politicians realize that if they claim that obama or dems are socialists, marxist, communists and that they are the exact opposite they are declaring themselves facists.......just shows beckists will throw out words that they don't know about

In any case, taking into account what he said about Rep. Wasserman-Schultz as well, I fervently hope that Rep. West's constituents have been paying attention to his crass behavior and not reelect him.

If you thought that tirade was crazy..........congress woman Wasserman-Schultz said something along the lines of congressmen west voted for the ryan budget or whatever particular bill that she was commenting on that helped kill medicare which she thought it was unbelievable because he's florida a congressmen and has many, many elderly folks in his district and the whole state for that matter. So to respond he called a coward and "not a lady". Really seriously. That was a comment about him that he couldn't take.....really....???.... with the state of our political system he finds that to be a deplorable comment.....really west.

he went on lawrence months back and he was interview by LoD about comments saying the president should not "lead" from behind or how he criticized obama for landing to visit iraq at night. West said that his touching down after night fall unannounced was cowardly and that presidents shouldn't do that. Of course in reality everyone does since our president and diplomats are safer when they have tight travel plans and travel times which is why they don't announce their visits before if they are heading into a war zone!!! Duuuuuuaaaaahh West. Presidents should fly into potential war zones during the day where they have a higher chance of being attacked? Really????

oooh or his assertion from his campaign that his job is to kill the evil left.....if allen doesn't agree with you you're worthless garbage because you disagree

or the craziest in my opinion which was also from the campaign where was discussing a popular bumper sticker generally just called the "coexist" bumper sticker

you've almost certainly seen one before it's the one with all the religious signs superimposed over word "coexist"

Well Mr. West said that it represented the ultimate antithesis of america is about

He is a total nut and I serious and truthfully believe that he has issues that he needs to seek some medical/psychiatric guidance. We have never seen a more angry explosive hateful politician. Allen West most certainly has a huge anger problem. Sadest part about him and his statements is that you know he actually believes every single word of it.

In some very, very, minor ways West reminds me of the west borough baptists in that he takes the self righteous moral ground(or atlest he pretends to) and refuses to answer any questions about his statements in a way other than to belittle, insult, and just yell. If you disagree with him you're scum.............I wouldn't be surprised if he was a west burough baptist supporter himself after hate mongers must stick together like GW on failure

CosmicChuck

That's funny.."Progressives are for Capitalism with a conscience". Progressives are for a government check in the mailbox every month paid for by Capitalists. There's a difference!!!

Ah no that would be tea bagging republicans like capt entitled who felt he deserved his 2 government handouts but wanted to stop everyone else from receiving their earned government handout. Funny how you tea bagging republicans try to say your are against government handouts yet every time we look there you are with your hand out for what you believe you are entitled to. You also seem to ignore all of the government handouts that the wealthy enjoy.

whom

The wealth don't get gov't handouts. The wealthy pay for this country, The poor take from the wealthy. The wealthy are the provider class, everyone else is the recipient class. Got it??

LOL at the re-reg duck with the three names.

you seem to understand nothing, but like so many on the right they just keep shoveling crap. the sad/funny part is that the wealth would not even take time to piss on them, like they seem to want. LOL guess they enjoy sucking up all that yellow trickle down Reagan crap.

The wealth don't get gov't handouts. The wealthy pay for this country, The poor take from the wealthy. The wealthy are the provider class, everyone else is the recipient class. Got it??

You clearly haven't heard of subsidies

CC:

do you mean legal tax deductions?

If he walks, he walks. If there are riots then we can return to the above discussion regarding 9mm...44mag...357mag etc.

There Idiots out there but I don't know if any threats have been made by any group.

So where is this information gathered?

TM they make it up as they go along. Notice minority riots = fear, college kids rioting after their team wins a playoff = ignored. One tried to claim the 1992 King Riot was caused by all races, LOL. Yeah cause you know south central LA is well known as a melting pot made up of all races.

LOL

you keep harping on that but have not shown any thing to back it up!

guess its cause there is nothing to back up.

oh boo,,,, hope that dont scary you to much, as it seems that's about all it takes.

Don't get me wrong....I don't like Bush either....my point is that Obama is a weak President.

Obama is weak. I can't imagine Romney will be any stronger.

I can't imagine how he couldn't be stronger.