Now There Is One Hell Odf A Comparison = Shoplifting vs. MURDER !!!??????????

This is just an excuse these teens are using to behave badly. It has nothing to do with the killing.

Thanks for expressing these racist comments. Now if they had all been white you would have had nothing to say? Just assuming from the comments you made above? Remember you can't take back words you post, and we form opinions about you from what we read.

That Is Amazing = Isnt It = The Police Department Will Do A Massive And Complete Investigation For Shoplifting = Butt A MURDER = Well Hey !!!!!?????????

bingo, md!

You're nothing but a propagandist.

You've given me even more reason to be suspicious of the right-wing, and anyone who supports insane gun laws.

YIKES>>>>>>>MD... I took a step back.....good one.

I don't like guns, and I don't like murder..... does that make me wrong. There are also some smug republicans I don't like.

Since you're a racist, maybe you should be.

And maybe if the case had been handled properly, there would be no need for demonstrations.

So please explain again why we shouldn't be suspicious of black teens?

You shouldn't be afraid because fear is the mind killer but more importantly skin color doesn't make you a criminal. Are you saying we should be more suspicious of black teens than white, asian or hispanic teens.......you're not helping your case here much

News Flash = An Investigator Filed An Affidavit On This Case That He Does NOT Agree As To The Story That zimmy Gave To police !!!!!!!!

No, they wonder why you're trying to justify deliberate, premeditated murder.

DFTT, Real.......THEY don't have ears.

http://ohinternet.com/Troll

TRF

You've made similar statements no less than 7 times. Why make excuses for a wana be cop that killed a kid?

Some racist just never turn loose. You appear to be one of those. Try growing up.

Also you might want to take your right wing BS else where. I heard Fox wanted you back. They ran out of lies and BS.

And the black community wonders why whites are suspicious

Thousands of black folks were murdered by the klan over the hundred or so years between the emancipation and civil rights movement and were never put on trial for their actions or investigated so and they were all white so why shouldn't the black community be suspicious of all whites? By your logic the black community has considerable reason to not the trust the white community after all so many injustices were committed on them by whites? So why shouldn't they be suspicious of them?

Oh yeah because a wise man you may or not have heard of by the name of MLK once said that you should judge a person not on the color of their skin but on the content of their character. Another wise man said judge not less ye be judged.

I'm wondering why you believe it is so important to discuss this blacks vs. whites subject matter......why is it so important for you to discuss these matters on strictly racial terms........

you in fact are now no better than the left wing race resentment people, thanks for helping move our society backward

And the black community wonders why whites are suspicious

Thousands of black folks were murdered by the klan over the hundred or so years between the emancipation and civil rights movement and were never put on trial for their actions or investigated so and they were all white so why shouldn't the black community be suspicious of all whites? By your logic the black community has considerable reason to not the trust the white community after all so many injustices were committed on them by whites? So why shouldn't they be suspicious of them?

Oh yeah because a wise man you may or not have heard of by the name of MLK once said that you should judge a person not on the color of their skin but on the content of their character. Another wise man said judge not less ye be judged.

I'm wondering why you believe it is so important to discuss this blacks vs. whites subject matter......why is it so important for you to discuss these matters on strictly racial terms........

you in fact are now no better than the left wing race resentment people, thanks for helping move our society backward

Thousands of black folks were murdered by the klan over the hundred or so years between the emancipation and civil rights movement

Almost 1 million white Americans were
murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by black Americans , compared with
about 132,000 blacks who were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by whites,
according to the same survey.

those statistics was from the last 20 years so i would say blacks got there pay back and then some

Is it racist to tell the antelope not to be scared of the lion or the seal not to be scared of the shark

I'm getting very tired of the PC crap when statistics and facts have shown time and time again that whites are 50 times more likely to suffer violence from blacks

And when we have the rare and yes i said rare possible white on black crime you lefties get all upset and start foaming a the mouth

The Black community needs stop pointing the fingers and this blame game and figure out what they need to do to stop their violent behavior in alot of the youths before they start asking us to change they way we perceive them

Im not racist im a realist and from my past experience getting robbed at gun point not once but twice by Black thugs i have that right

Actually, from what I personally know of black people, I'm always afraid they might start playing superb guitar or break out into really great dancing.

And then there's Stanley Clarke, Victor Wooten and Marcus Johnson, 3 really great bass players.

I'm tired of you pretending that your skin color decides whether your a criminal or not. You may continue to fear black people if you wish but know that America has chosen to judge people on their character not their color. You may choose to not do that but expect anybody, who isn't a neo nazi, to follow in that root. You should be smart enough to realize you get robbed by white people too, or that entire racial groups don't decide as a group what they will.

If you see a black guy and the first thing you think is robber rapist, you might be a racist.

If all black people are responsible for you being roobed then I will you responsible for apartheid, the kkk, transatlantic slave trade, the oklahoma city bombing, the murders in Norway at that summer camp, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, the first and second world wars.......by your brilliant racist logic that would be case would it not. Don't waste anytime responding I put racists on "ignore". I do not respect your opinion and will not be considering your viewpoints on anything here in the future.

I'm sure that's why Spike Lee sent some black thugs to what he thought was Zimmerman's address. Turned out to be someone else's house. The people there called the police in fear for their lives. No arrest were made and no condemnation from the black community on Spike Lee. The Black Panthers put a bounty out on Zimmerman. Were they investigated? No. Should a white group put a hit out on the black Panthers or send some white thugs to Spike Lee's house? No. This activity is constantly coming from blacks and liberal activist. Honest people who want to support or give witness on Zimmerman's behalf are getting death threats. His friends and family are getting death threats. Trayvon's memory is being blotted out by black activist not white racism.

I see the left doing a big flip on this one

When it was Zimmerman having his past brought up and scrutinized and used against him that was perfectly fine and just went to show intent

But when the tables are turned it the truth starting to come out about Martin not being this sweet 14 year old model student the liberal press painted him as that he was more of a 17 year old pot smoking wannabe thug and probably a thief you try to play that the past has nothing to do with it

Well I'm here to tell you you cant have it both ways you cant say the past of Zimmerman is relevant but the past of Martin isn't

TRF, you have a serious problem, racist.

KV...

there is not a single mention of color or race in TRF's statement that you responded to, yet you call him a racist.

His other post simply points out statistical FACTS regarding crime in our country.

Why do the facts bother you so much?

stormguy, if you have been following his posts for a while, and can't see that he is very prejudiced and obsessed with statistics re: blacks & crime. i'm sure there are just as much info on whites & crime. haven't most serial killers been white?

Their pasts don't matter. Their present does. Zimmerman is a murderer. No matter how you try to propagandize it, it's not illegal nor threatening to walk down the street if you're black.

And nothing justifies murdering someone because you don't like the way they look.

But if you want to get into past histories, Zimmerman has charges for physical assault of a police officer. Trayvon has no charges of assault against anyone.

Sorry Storm, I read post #2 and Trf, said "I watched the film and 90% were black....Why was that necessary to seal his argument? Racism? Sounds just like the zimmie comments to me.....But of course I'm passina a judment that why mention the story....since it had nothing to do with the murder. I stand on the side of the fence with Trayvon, and I want justice for him......Zim can supply the justice if he will man up.

All of the left wing hate mongers should go read a dictionary and look up the meaning of the words racism, bigotry and prejudice. Please use them in the appropriate manner so you don't make more idiotic statements which show your ignorance.

Why don't you take your own advice? You'll look much less stupid.

Well, less stupid.

thank you, chris!

I know the real definitions very well...the bastardized versions that you guys come up with are used like cheap toilet paper.

Try looking up the word "hypocrisy."

I did...it had a picture of the Democratic party Ass.

Most people don't have to look up the word "hypocrisy."

And most people's dictionary's don't have pictures.

racism is applying innate negative or inferiority flaws in terms of race relation

racism is saying something negative about someone because of their race, and no other reason but their race

to float the idea that most blacks are criminals or that blacks can't resist being violent applies negative judgements about being black.

But when the tables are turned it the truth starting to come out about Martin not being this sweet 14 year old model student the liberal press painted him as that he was more of a 17 year old pot smoking wannabe thug and probably a thief you try to play that the past has nothing to do with it

And what does that have to do with the case, how does this make any difference even if the victim was nefarious that doesn't change reality........what evidence do you have to suggest martin was committing a crime that day walking home. No one is even trying to float such a ridiculous idea because as you've already admitted Z was following m not the other way around

call me ole' fashion but I believe in an america where we don't have to fight over stupid issues brought up by left wing and folks like yourself ie right wing race baters

Not one single word of what you said justifies Zimmerman killing a black kid because he didn't like the way he looked. You're just trying to confuse the issue.

Here is interresting case that has nothing to do with race bateing.. . . . . or does it?

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2012-03-27/internet-troll-sentence

It is about crime and a judgement made.......you can compare it if you like.

Not one single word of what you said justifies Zimmerman killing a black kid because he didn't like the way he looked.

I never said it did, and I'm not trying to confuse anything.

Then what was the purpose of your post?

The purpose of my post is to point out that the previous poster was correct in saying that Martin's past history is just as relevant to this case as Zimmerman's is even though nobody wants to talk about it lest them being labeled a racist for doing so.

I was further pointing out the fact that the general knee-jerk reaction of people on this board when responding to someone who has criticism of a person who is non-caucasian always ends up in the person leveling that criticism being labeled a racist.

Both points are true, and relevant, since the subject of this discussion seems to be about race and I see an awful lot of name calling going on yet again.

You are free to ignore my posts if you don't feel they're relevant.

I'm also free to comment on them.

What you don't seem to understand is that the past histories of both people are irrelevant.

They are being brought up as a smoke-screen.

And the only reason anyone brings up Zimmerman's past is because of the attempt to smear the victim's past and make it seem as though he deserved to be killed.

Face don't be an idiot you're better than that. Martin's past actions are irelavent, it does not matter, there is no way that these actions could have played any role in this situation. Furthermore you should be smart enough to comprehend the idea that Z past should influence how we feel about this story. Z made claims of self defense, this is his side of the story he wishes to tell. So his background of incidents which were violent in fact should influence the investigation. Z is making claims, it goes to his credibility.

Martin's race has nothing to do with it either and you know that. Martin is dead thus he has know story to attest to, we will never know what his side of the story is therefore we can not make rulings on it. We can not examine the veracity of someone who is dead, there is no statement from Martin to question. You can't attack things that haven't happend.

If you really think you know what you're talking about tell us why martin's past is important as I have shown Zimmerman's to be. In what way did this history play in this event and I don't care about your feelings or your perceptions, tell us how this could have influenced situation. Explain how Zimmerman would have known that.......there are many possibilities but none of them rely on your illogical analysis. You will continue to fan the neo nazi belief that the white race is under attack, but this is never been about race.

Stop acting like pathetic fool jesse jackson and stop trying to prey on racial resentment. It is so typical that the right would do this attack on a dead person and then try to claim Obama's rhetoric is divisive....what you fail to realize that it does not matter. You can criticize it all you want it's never going to be used ever in court. No one is talking about it, or at least should be talking about because it wouldn't make a god damn bit of diffensive.

I'm so tired of hearing righties try to always pretend to be victim or suffer from persecution.

It is astonishing as african american to see that many whites believe we have a hive mind or that get together in regular meetings decide on what our opinions on everything are voted on.........stop talking about racial categories as if they are cohesive ideological units because they have the same skin color. If blacks are responsible for robbery whites are responsible for the holocaust after all the germans were white and you brilliantly revealed that people in the same social category have the same thoughts on everything, so whites are responsible for the holocaust, let's throw anti-white racism into the mix if we're going to waste time with that other racist crap

The new black panther party are racial terrorists like the klan and have no connection to any part of this, why should show acts of racism from people we assume logically from the beginning will say racist things. Should we see what neo nazi stormfront ground is saying on this I'm sure they have an opinion since were going to neglect obvious realities. Now one gives a damn about the nbpp. If you think that giving them a national microphone would benefit the nation then you're as stupid jesse jackson, al sharpton, and the other race baters

If you really think you know what you're talking about tell us why martin's past is important as I have shown Zimmerman's to be.

Because past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior and that goes for both sides.

I don't think Zimmerman's shooting Martin was warranted in this situation, but that's based on only what I've heard which obviously isn't the whole story.

We don't know what happened in the time between the 911 call and the actual shooting. Several minutes passed. There were no eye witnesses.

Did Martin retreat or did he turn to confront Zimmerman during that time? Nobody knows but Martin and Zimmerman and Martin is dead.

So yes I think to some degree Martin's past must be taken into some consideration, to the degree that we can make some sort of conclusion about his demeanor and character.

Was he the confrontational type, maybe a troublemaker, maybe a wise ass? Did he run his mouth and antagonize or provoke Zimmerman? What if Martin was a wannabe gangster? I'm not saying he was any of these things but I do think these questions are relevant and should be asked. And the only way to surmise any sort of rational answers to any of these questions is to examine his past, just like Zimmerman's past is being examined.

I'm not saying this to defend Zimmerman (he shot someone who was unarmed) but if what transpired was an altercation that possibly may have been started by Martin, doesn't it paint a slightly different picture of what may have actually happened?

Who is to say something like that didn't happen?

The news is painting Zimmerman as a psycho killer and Martin as just some innocent kid who wasn't doing anything but walking to a house. I'm not sure I totally buy that version of the story.

I think that Zimmerman had an itchy trigger finger and probably at some point was confronted by Martin who probably turned to figure out why he was being followed. We don't know what was said or what transpired before the shot but I do believe the whole story is right there.

I'm so tired of hearing righties try to always pretend to be victim or suffer from persecution.

It is astonishing as african american to see that many whites believe we have a hive mind or that get together in regular meetings decide on what our opinions on everything are voted on.........stop talking about racial categories as if they are cohesive ideological units because they have the same skin color. If blacks are responsible for robbery whites are responsible for the holocaust after all the germans were white and you brilliantly revealed that people in the same social category have the same thoughts on everything, so whites are responsible for the holocaust, let's throw anti-white racism into the mix if we're going to waste time with that other racist crap

I think it was me that said categorizing people into collective groups based on skin color (regardless of favoring them or discriminating against them) only further perpetuates racism.

You can not deny that myself and some others have been labeled racist when we've criticized Obama in the past. Some people are very quick to play that card here. That is a fact that is well documented if you bother to look at my posting history.

I was just pointing out that this is a sword that cuts both ways.

If you think that giving them a national microphone would benefit the nation then you're as stupid jesse jackson, al sharpton, and the other race baters

I think what I said is exactly the opposite of what you're suggesting here.

As for Martin's race not mattering, I beg to differ because from all accounts I've seen this appears to be a hate crime.

I would further suggest that if Zimmerman were black this probably would never have made the news. I'd further suggest that if Martin were white this probably wouldn't have made the news either. I don't know why there's not more outrage about that. Murder is murder.

You will continue to fan the neo nazi belief that the white race is under attack

This is not my belief, not in any way shape or form.

If this is what you think I'm doing then you've totally misunderstood me and you have my apology.

I doubt this is a true hate crime, it seems not to be premediated

Martin's past doesn't matter because even if he did through the first punch the provacation was started by Zimmerman by following him. There is something to say about Martin and his ability to stand his ground. Even if he did attack it's nearly impossible to say that he would have if zimmerman had not followed him

On Obama I think most "racist" attacks on him are baseless, they are legit. But you can not deny that there have been several instances where it was racist. It's not about who it's being said about it's how it's being said that counts

Obviously you live in a fantasy world Johnny. Every American has a right to carry a gun with them. It is guaranteed to them under the Constitution of the United States. I carry a gun with me at all times.

I have heard lots of people say...I could kill him for what he just did...but that does not mean they actually would.

Blaming Bush for this just shows that you have a left wing bias.

The Stand your Ground laws and the Castle laws are needed more than ever in our society....and that has nothing to do with black, white, asian, hispanic of anything else...crime is committed by people of all colors.

We can place blame on both parties, Zimmerin and Martin but the real blame should be on J. Bush for signing the law in the first place. No one other than a law emforcment officer should have a permit to carry a loaded firearm. It is a permit for disaster. How many times have you heard someone say " if I had a gun I would have blowed their head off". Right now everyone has to keep a cool head and let the independant investigator do her job. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson should return home and let the law run it's course.

Yes but it's not the law that killed that kid. By your rationale gun related crime rates in states that have concealed carry laws would have went up exponentially, and they haven't.

This case is about whether or not ONE GUY used deadly force against another person justifiably. People who want to "blow someone's head off" do it regardless of if they have a permit to carry a gun or not.

Go ask Peter Cukor whether he thinks that carrying a weapon to protect himself from a crazed maniac is a good idea...oh, that's right, you can't. The crazed maniac KILLED him.

If the constitution give you the right to carry a gun, why do you need a concealed weapons permit to do so? It gives you the right to bear arms. If you are so afraid that you feel the need to carry at all times, maybe you should think about moving. Also remember when the constitution was writen. When we had NO military and they relied on the malitia.

AMENDMENT II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Do you think Zimmerman was part of a well-regulated militia?

Why do you think those words are in there?

According to the Supreme Court, the opening phrase is prefatory and non-exclusive.

From Wiki:

In the latter half of the 20th century there was considerable debate over whether the Second Amendment protected an individual right or a collective right.^[105] The debate centered on whether the prefatory clause (“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State”) declared the amendment’s only purpose or merely announced a purpose to introduce the operative clause (“the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”).

Three basic competing models were offered to interpret the Second Amendment:^[106]

The first, known as the "states' rights" or "collective rights" model, was that the Second Amendment did not apply to individuals; rather, it recognized the right of a state to arm its militia.

The second, known as the "sophisticated collective rights model", held that the Second Amendment recognized some limited individual right. However, this individual right could only be exercised by members of a functioning, organized state militia while actively participating in the organized militia’s activities.

The third, known as the "standard model", was that the Second Amendment recognized the personal right of individuals to keep and bear arms.

Under both of the collective rights models, the opening phrase was considered essential as a pre-condition for the main clause.^[107] These interpretations held that this was a grammar structure that was common during that era^[108] and that this grammar dictated that the Second Amendment protected a collective right to firearms to the extent necessary for militia duty.^[109]

Under the standard model, the opening phrase was believed to be prefatory or amplifying to the operative clause. The opening phrase was meant as a non-exclusive example—one of many reasons for the amendment.^[20] This interpretation was consistent with the position that the Second Amendment protects a modified individual right.^[110]

The question of a collective rights versus an individual right was progressively resolved with the 2001 Fifth Circuit ruling in United States v. Emerson, in the 2008 Supreme Court ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, and in the 2010 Supreme Court ruling in McDonald v. Chicago. All of those rulings upheld the individual rights model when interpreting the Second Amendment. In Heller, the Supreme Court upheld the Second Amendment as protecting an individual right.^[111] Although the Second Amendment is the only Constitutional amendment with a prefatory clause, such constructions were widely used elsewhere.^[112]

There are no facts that Trayvon broke anybody's nose. That's Zimmermans statement. Why was that not in the police report if it happen? Why wait til the next day for medical treatment if that happened?

I believe if you care to follow TRF's posts on this thread and other's you'll find very racist remarks. But that's OK. We know the rightie don't give damn.

And Tokyo Rose weighs in.

Time for the propaganda moment.

I can call all you racist against Hispanics

Larry:

The original police report which was filed the night of the incident notes that there were injuries to Zimmerman's nose and the back of his head. Additionally, he was treated my EMT's on the scenes.

Next time, do your own work before you start spouting off at the mouth with your mis-informed rhetoric.

Quack Quack

Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. ALL Hispanics are white.

Hispanic

"pertaining to Spain" (especially ancient Spain) 1584, from L. Hispanicus, from Hispania "Iberian Peninsula," from Hispanus "Spaniard" (see Spaniard). Specific application to Sp.-speaking parts of the New World is 1889, Amer.Eng.; esp. applied since c.1972 to Sp.-speaking

Hispanic (hɪˈspænɪk)

— adj

1.
relating to, characteristic of, or derived from Spain or Spanish-speaking countries

— n

2.
( US ) a person of Latin-American or Spanish descent living in the US

usage This is the word most generally used in the US to refer to people of Latin American or Spanish ancestry

Nope Hispanics are not a race so nope no racism can be called because you need a race to hate for it to be racist.

Capt. I'm not supporting either party. I'm saying that we should wait and let thhe law have a shot at it before we stir up a race riot. And no stormy, I don't live in a fantasy world, there is only a very few states you are legal to carry a LOADED firearm.

Thank goodness Texas is one of them, Johnny! Always good to here from you Chris! Still waiting for you to tell me what "propaganda" I espouse. Remember Larry, Zimmerman had gone through police training and knew the law. The facial injuries (noted by the police that night) were adequate "proof" that he was defending himself!

Enough for the lead investigator to say he wanted him arrested for manslaughter.

After which he was removed from the case.

lamalevi2....

Congratulations...you are one of the few people on this board who understands the way things should be..it is nice to hear another voice of reason..

What do you mean "another"?

By the way, the original investigator wanted Zimmerman arrested, but over the phone, the closest she got to the scene, the prosecutor refused.

Any thoughts on that?

MJB...

The witness said the person he saw being hit on the ground was wearing red...which is what Zimmerman was wearing.

Your conjecture regarding Zimmerman's injuries are just that...guesswork and they do nothing to add credibility to this discussion in any way.

Please at least TRY to report the known facts accurately. It is tiring having to correct all the mistakes you guys make while you are trying to create hysteria with your rhetoric.

What one thinks from a legal standpoint is irrelevant in determining guilt. Let say some day you are in court and the court accepts a witness testimony against you based on what they "think" you did . Would you be okay with that?

A witness that remained silent for over 3 weeks and didn't come forward until after the 911 tapes was released and people could hear screams in the back ground that stop after the gun shot, who claimed it was Zimmerman screaming for help, somehow I question that witness passing the smell test. As well as the time line doesn't match the witness accounting of events. As well as no one questioned the persons distance from the "fight" as well as it was raining as well as it was after dark which all play into what a person see's or didn't see.

Then there is the matter of the belt holster that held the gun, 911 has a time line of 1 minute from the time 911 told Zimmerman he didn't need to do that to the time of gun shot from other 911 callers, so in that minute, Zimmerman got out of his truck, ran after Martin, Finds Martin, Exchanges words with Martin, gets punched in the nose by Martin, Falls to the ground where Martin starts bouncing his head on the ground, while Zimmerman is getting his head bounced on the ground he manages to unsnap his holster, pull the gun, take the safety off the gun, and shoots Martin dead with 1 shot. Yeah something sure smells funny with that story.

Your conjecture regarding Zimmerman's injuries are just that...guesswork and they do nothing to add credibility to this discussion in any way.

Well actually we do know about the seemingly minor nature of the injuries as detailed in the report and the fact that he did not go to the hospital, I think at this point that is pretty clear but ultimately doesn't have much to do with anything. It is as important as Martin's alleged criminal history. The issue here is perception and reasonable perception of injury, so the injuries, again although minor do give some creedance to Zimmerman "fearing for his life and so on"....personally it's more because he's just a coward....but that's an irrelavent thought. What I think is hard in this is that yes there is some reasonable possibilty he feared for his life, which I again I would say just makes him a coward since he got himself into the situation all by himself, but none the less he likely could have been scared. Again I must say I personally call it cowardice and foolishness but legally that means nothing.......

Now back my point about how hard this is to judge...I think that we have spent a lot of time talking about Zimmerman's fear or suspicions however I can't imagine that Martin was not feeling threatened. If that were my I would feel unsafe, I would be quite concerned were I in his shoes so I think that is justifiable which means both people were trying to stand their ground, which people should have the right to do, the problem is only one side can win. Since the evidence of the initial scene was not saved, to my knowledge they did not take the bloody clothes of the shooter or save the gun for ballistics or record the scene and observe a strict chain of custody so because of that we can now never know.

• Again let me be clear I myself believe that Martin tried to escape by going a different route or an altered route after noticing this unmarked non-city official vehicle was following him
• he went a route that a car couldn't follow to see what this person's intention was or to see if he was really being followed
• Zimmerman at that point should have not gone on foot, that only raised Martin's feeling of being under threat. Rightfully so in my opinion
• A fight happend, who started it is impossible to know, but Martin was winning a short time in hand to hand which is why Zimmerman pulled his gun that he probably doesn't even really know how to shoot which is why Martin was fatally wounded
• So because Z targetted him, he intentionally whether he knew it or not was trying to engage in a confrontation and that unless Martin was after him that Z deserves some punishment.
• Final ruling-it is clear that when one is attacked for any reason the natural reaction is to defend one's self with any means at hand, this is human nature. But since Z got himself into the mess in the first place he can not expect the law to feel sorry for him. This is another example of some fool who does something stupid and wants people to feel sorry for him.

Whom who did any yelling is not important. Shouldn't common sense say that they both probably screamed because of what happend here? The only real issue is who threw the first swing, who shouted doesn't answer that at all. FYI witnesses who come forward weeks later after something has national attention who say they heard something aren't the most credible folks out there. There is no valid eye witness accounts that are not fuzy or hear-say. They would never hold up in court, we don't know who swung first anyone who tells you different is lying.

oh and I wouldn't be surprised if Z never put his gun on safety in the first place! Something tells me this guy isn't a firearms expert. Plus at close range any shot of a handgun is going to hit the torso

Please at least TRY to report the known facts accurately. It is tiring having to correct all the mistakes you guys make while you are trying to create hysteria with your rhetoric.

Storm haven't you learned by now from MSNBC and FOX News that neither side wants to report the known facts accurately, then they'd be like CNN aka boring. Fair and balanced really just means fairly balanced to one side.

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/images/If_you_are_placed_under_citizens_arrest.pdf

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/images/If_you_are_placed_under_citizens_arrest.pdf

From the second link.........................

Under the law, people are entitled to resist unlawful arrest. If the person making an arrest fails to provide identification or explain what he or she is doing, the citizen can resist. People cannot use inappropriate force to resist unlawful arrest.

So reality is Martin would be within his rights to resist Zimmerman and take reasonable force to resist Zimmerman. There are guidelines as well as laws you have to follow one of which is you can't detain anyone without probable cause and if someone tries to detain you then you have the right to leave and use whatever force you believe is reasonable.

Whom:

Your assumption is that Zimmerman was trying to arrest Martin. Once again, there is no evidence that Zimmerman tried to detain him in any way.

No again those were to prove the point that if someone confronts you on the sidewalk what rights you have. Citizens arrest is the only law that allows a citizen to detain another citizen but the citizen that believes he is being unlawfully detained has the right to resist within a reasonable use of force force. Which I clearly state after the snip it I posted from the site. But I keep on forgetting that tea bagging disruptors will put words into others mouths because they aren't here to debate or learn they are here to disrupt and will ignore everything that Fox news and Rush doesn't tell them to repeat.

The family are the ones who want it kept in the media for the main reason that if they don't it will get pushed out of the spot light and the good old boys will sweep it under the rug as they have seen with other injustices done to the black community.

The family are the ones who want it kept in the media for the main reason that if they don't it will get pushed out of the spot light and the good old boys will sweep it under the rug as they have seen with other injustices done to the black community.

Wrong. The people who are really responsible for keeping this story going with "new details"...you know I really hate that 'cuz none of the details are ever new......is the media. The family got the story out there and it received attention so now we know that people are watching and that something will happen in this case. Media helped to get the investigation rolling so we can be assured their will be one since so many eyes will be on it. We just don't need to see this story anymore, it has reached its maximum usefulness potential. You know you're looking at a shameless tragedy fad when we're all "protesting" by wearing some item of clothing. It's over once it starts to be commercialized

I have no problem is hearing about the story IF there are really new details...right now there isn't...move on

Because you tea bagging republicans would have made the discussion about how Martin looks, never mind facts that todays youth have adopted the hip hop gangster thug look, both whites and blacks making the whole thing that Zimmerman had a right to say Martin was suspicious, as we saw with the Hoodie defense. The reason Zimmermans mug shot from his arrest was used was because there were no other photos available when the case first hit the media. Again Zimmerman is the one who decides if he is white or not, that decision is not yours to make, Hispanic is not a race, Hispanic is Spanish speaking people that was used by the Nixon white house to describe multi racial countries citizens. Zimmermans daddy the judge used the term mixed race, white/Hispanic, daddy judge knows the American citizen well as he played right into the prejudices of his fellow citizens beliefs that would make them believe this was not a white on black crime. Funny how your whining about the photos only shows your bigotry.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/former-naacp-leader-accuses-sharpton-and-jackson-of-exploiting-trayvon-martin/

So you hide behind name calling and can't make an argument without putting someone down. I assume you are a liberal as you seem to think you know what party I am with. You never answered my questions which is what I see in most liberal responses. The Hoody marches and Al Sharpton are igniting racial tension. Some black celebrity sent some thugs to what he thought was Zimmerman's address. Turned out it was the wrong address and the people there were in fear for their life. Police arrested no one. Should whites now riot because of that? Or maybe send some thugs to beat the crap out of the black thugs that did this. This is very typical reaction. You don't see whites doing these things very often.

Bryant spoke with The Daily Caller’s Alex Pappas Monday and, telling him that Martin’s family “should be outraged at the fact that they’re using this child as the bait to inflame racial passions.”

Martin hit back at the Bryant: “Right, here’s what what I would tell Rev. CL Bryant. How much attention did this story get before black bloggers and folks in social media began to drive the story? Would you have a special prosecutor right now had the attention not been placed on it? I would say absolutely not!”

“And I would say, where’s Rev. C.L. Bryant?” Martin added. “Where’s he fighting for justice? It’s as simple as that.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/roland-martin-hits-back-at-c-l-bryant-wheres-he-fighting-for-justice/

Where was your outrage when Nixon declared war on blacks and other undesirables by pandering to southern voters with his Law and Order code words. Where were you when Reagan told his generations of welfare queen lies about the black welfare recipients. Now you are accusing blacks of dividing the country on race, yeah right the GOP have been doing that every since LBJ signed civil rights into law. Where does any law state that you can murder someone because of the way they dress or smoked weed or did anything else you don't agree with. All you did was prove the point that you want the right to shoot anyone not like you. Why, because how a person dresses or looks has no bearing on that person deserves life or not. What we are getting from you is that good old KKK belief that you can tell the value of a person by the way he looks which lead to the lynching of black males for whistling at a white woman.

And fake.

My point is, the racism is being spread more by blacks, black activist, liberal groups etc. Spike Lee sends a group of black thugs to where he thought Zimmerman lived. Wrong house and the people there called police fearing for their lives. No arrest were made. The Black Panthers put a bounty on Zimmerman's life. No investigation or arrests. People wearing hoodies shouting out death to whites. No white protests from these incidents. You very rarely see this response when a white person is a victim of murder by a black. The Facebook quotes copied are not fake. These irresponsible responses by blacks and activist are wiping out Trayvon Martin's memory and is spreading hate and racism and dividing blacks and whites.

By msnbc.com staff
A couple in Sanford, Fla., is afraid for their lives after people posted their home address on Twitter and said it was that of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who shot dead Trayvon Martin.

The mistake reportedly has forced David and Elaine McClain, a couple in their 70s whose home is about four miles from where Martin was shot, to flee to a hotel.
"My youngest son, his last name is Zimmerman and his middle name is George," Elaine McClain told ClickOrlando.com, but that's all they have in common.
Advertise | AdChoices

Among those retweeting the couple's address was film director Spike Lee, who has nearly 250,000 followers on Twitter.
"He definitely owes a big apology," McClain added. "All this is really scary and it's a shame. There's no reason they put our address out there without checking to see who lived there."
On Monday, the McClains called police after receiving an envelope with writing that tied it to the Martin case.
Police promised to increase patrols in their Sanford neighborhood, the McClains said. But as a precaution, they have fled to a hotel, Chip Humble, one of their sons, told the Orlando Sentinel.
"We're afraid for our lives," Elain McClain said. 
William George Zimmerman, the son whose name led to the errant tweet, said he wasn't sure how his parents' address was tracked down, but he noted that he lived there briefly after college and had used the address to register a car, get a driver's license and vote, according to the Sentinel.

The parents of Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old student fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer in a gated Florida community, defend their son's reputation amid new reports that portray him as a teen often in trouble. NBC's Ron Allen reports.
 

So we get the usual racist I'm not a racist racist reply. Here is a clue show me any examples where whites have been treated as second class citizens or where a white guy was stopped on a sidewalk and asked what he is doing in that area because he is white. Or where a white person was followed around a store by security for being white. That you are unaware of these things is not black peoples fault it is your fault. You can't claim there is no racism then claim whites are being harmed by racism without providing proof that whites are being discriminated against because they are white.

So people tweeting the wrong address is proof of what? So a little old lady is afraid that the mean old black monsters are going to invade her home and kill her so she ran to a motel which only proves the stupidity of old white people. Here is a clue, shes a woman, shes 70 years old the person they are tweeting about is a 28 year old Hispanic male. Now what has happened to make her afraid? Oh a letter showed up on her doorstep with writing that ties it to Zimmerman. That is the best you can do, a scared old woman who ran to the media. Guess what danger over it has been reported that they tweeted the wrong address so end of story.

. The police told her to go to a motel and you are just as bad as you think Zimmerman is. Wrong address or not you can't threaten people. You are a disturbed individual. You are why liberals get a bad name. Hundreds of teenagers running wild making racial comments while looting a store, Black Panther hits, Thugs taking the law in their own hands. You know this is wrong yet you still defend it. That lady and their husband feared for their lives and police told them to got to a motel. They get 100s of threat letters every day. If a group of crazy acting black thugs showed up at my front door, I would dial 911 then my 5 family members would stand in the door with guns aimed, and if they charged they would die.

Whom..

In the past I have thought that you were just a leftist hack with your own agenda. We disagree on most issues and that is fine. However, your rant above shows that you are truly a sick individual with the same racist bigotry that you claim all the "tea bagging republicans" have. I hope that all the tax dollars from hard working Americans around you have paid for a good Social Service program with talented psychiatrists that can help you deal with the problems you have.

I think maybe she got mugged by a minority group.

No white protests from these incidents

There is no such thing as a white or black protest.

You very rarely see this response when a white person is a victim of murder by a black.

Newsflash Zimmerman ain't white. You rarely see a case where a "black" kills a "white" and is not charged, the same can not be said for the other way around.

There is no Black panthers group, they do not exist today. You are reffering the the new black panthers, and there is difference whether you wish to admit that or not. The nbpp are noted racists like the klan so there not be any attempts to discuss such a "development". The kkk has something to say about everything obama says should could we that "news"? No, there's nothing new about self avowed racists saying racist things. These "black panther hits" you discuss are fictional. Despite what the nbpp might have the impressional believe they have no power even remotely close to that of the mafia.

You and whom and al sharpton or rush will try to make this about a "white" killing a "black" and attempt to ptetend that is the root of the outrage, that just because ta black person was killed that there is angry. This may be rooted in some beief that blacks get to much "help" from society and don't deserve what they have which is thought to be the result of some sort of special treatment. This with a doubt is the case for a few people in the country who have that response. Perhaps not a majority but with out a doubt some.

Well I'm here to tell you you're wrong. This is about a crappy investigation by law enforcement which some think plays into the long history of blacks being murdered by white vigilantes in the south with no punishment as was the case during the civil rights era. So this brings up considerable outlandish racial baggage connections that go far beyond the incident. The nation has a tragic history of minorities being attacked by white vigilantes who face no punishment the same can not be said of the other way around. The country does not have a history of black indivuduals killing white individuals and not facing prosecution. This is a fact and there is nothing wrong with pointing that out, but as I said earlier this is not a black white issue thus this consideration is entirely out of place.