Open = Amen Ta That = TOOooo Bad For Edwards !!! Lock Him up Before The Operation !!!!!! Its Amazing These Goofballs Can Do What They Do And Still Be Walking Around = I Dont Get-It ???? If You Or I Were To Be Thieves — We Would Be In Jail In A Heartbeat !!!!!!

From what I have read he won't need an operation, unless he does get a pacemaker and that is a simple procedure. There is another procedure that goes through the groin like a heart cath that can be used in some cases. I don't think he is going to have to be cracked open for this unless he has a valve problem, now that would be a much more serious operation.

What ever happened to "inocent until proven guilty"?

Hard to defend what he did about his girlfriend and his now deceased wife. But I'm with Larry. Wait and see if he goes to trial. He is a jerk all the same.

Maybe they will sneak John Edwards off to the same island that Berny Madaoff will end up being spirited off too for the rest of his life . . . after he has a fake heart attack in prison . . . wealthy people never really pay for anything they do wrong . . . THAT is why there is the 99% movement.

hmmm....could have sworn Madoff was in prison.....and most of the people who helped him, well except his son who committed suicide, he's obviously not locked up......but hey maybe he's just a robot designed to fool us all like Mitt Romney

I'm curious as to what Edwards may have that would necessitate this.....to be honest if he does I feel bad for him.......I mean sure he's a cosmic size sneeze ball but that mean he deserves an untimely death...I mean he's bad but not that

when Bunny Mellon gave John Edwards money, she knew exactly what the money was for. Bunny Mellon gave John Edwards money to cover up his affair. this money was not given to run his campaign.

this is just another example, in my opinion, of republicans trying to bring a democrat down. why didn't the repubs try to bring david vitter down, or john ensign or larry "wide stance", " soliciting sex in a minneapolis airport bathroom" craig? why do repubs circle the wagons around their own, but when a democrat makes a mistake they take him to trial or try to IMPEACH him?

as a general rule, democrats do NOT do this to repubs.

repubs will make sure that John Edwards pays, even though it is NONE of their business, as this money was a personal gift THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH JOHN EDWARDS CAMPAIGN. was he trying to hide a dirty little secret? yes, but that is none of our business. the repubs are trying to make sure that EVERYONE knows about it, just as they did with President Clinton.

everyone knew that H.W. bush had a mistress, JENNIFER FITZGERALD, that he took EVERYWHERE WITH HIM, starting when he was the ambassador to china. this affair continued through his presidency. the democrats said NOTHING. but the repubs seem to forget they are also imperfect, and they turn on the democrats every chance they get.

john edwards knows what he has done, he is paying a price. LEAVE HIM ALONE.

Hmm . . . I pointed out that Madoff is in prison ( fake heart attack while he is in prison ) . . . I was being sarcastic . . . :=)

As Rachel Maddow points out from time to time…. IOKIYAR.

It's OK…. IF you're a Republican.

Amazing how politicians and the rich get caught breaking the law all use medical conditions to get out of their sentences.

They do have medical units in prison, and they have gurneys to cart him off to his trail and to jail when found guilty. He can wear some jammies to the court room as well like Michael Jackson did, but he needs to be tried and prosecuted for his crimes and sent to jail.

No mercy for this creep.

MsT, Open Range, and every democrat here,

i don't like what John Edwards did. it always irritates me when democrats make it so easy for repubs to bring them down. i didn't direct my comments to anyone in particular, i just think it is good to remember that we are all human.

so, we just heard the other day that James Okeefe is targeting the alleged threat of voter fraud in his latest "film", a 10 minute video that features his friend and cohort, showing how easy it is to vote as a dead person in new hampshire.

new hampshire doesn't require ID to vote, so when james okeefe and spencer meads request ballots for several voters that have recently died, in an effort to show how easy it is to commit 'voter fraud', the poll workers are prepared to meet their requests.

spencer meads was forced to flee from a polling station after giving a volunteer a name that she recognized as someone who was deceased. Think Progress notes that Okeefe and his cohorts may have broken a law that requires both parties to consent to being recorded, WHICH OKEEFE NEVER DOES.

james okeefe is also responsible for audio and video recordings of staged encounters with ACORN in 2009. he was arrested when he tried to record staff conversations in 2010 in the office of Senator Mary Landrieu, and he released videos of NPR executives in 2011. invesitgations into his videos have found that he selectively, deceptively, and heavily edits SECRETLY recorded videos to leave false impressions and to make things look the worst possible way.

james okeefe is associated with andrew breitbart (a protege of Drudge) who is responsible for starting the ACORN scandal, for causing the mess regarding Shirley Sherrod by selectively editing video, and andrew breitbart is also responsible for bringing down anthony weiner, not that anthony weiner didn't do his part. but we don't see democrats "setting up" republicans in their own bad behavior to bring them down.

doesn't anyone remember Watergate?

this behavior appears to be typical of repubs. they don't seem to care how they get their story, if the 'facts' are true, or that they themselves are guilty of the very same things, or even worse.

the repubs want to hold the democrats to a different standard than what they are held to. they want to follow different rules. they want everyone else to live by their rules, except for themselves.

the repub party; do as i say, not as i do.

Exactly Suzette ! Though they all make mistakes . . . like all human being do . . .

THE CHOICE IS CLEAR IN 2012 !

Democrats Stand For :

EVERYBODY DOES BETTER WHEN EVERYBODY DOES BETTER !

Republicons Stand For :

DO UNTO OTHERS . . . AND THEN CUT OUT !!

Right suzette, authoritarians. I do not expect perfection from people. THey are people. There is always someone that wishes to be viewed as the adult in the room, yet they go around acting like children, trying to PROVE that someone else did it too… you know… dig up dirt on "them" so that it seems like what I did wasn't as bad as what THEY did…

like a child… only go to great lengths and lawbreaking to prove it. you got it right, watergate and the recent voter fraud. When you break the very serious law to prove that something happens, you might get prosecuted and pay fines and prison sentence. That only "seems" heroic but it is really CREATING a problem, where none existed. I heard it's a pretty hefty fine and possible prison sentence for doing that scheme. I don't think it's worth creating a new law when there is already a law for that.

This is hilarious. The DOJ is prosecuting Edwards (it is Republicans, according to Suzette and her "oh yeah! you go girl!" partners). Bringing a situation to light is what starts a scandal? That is pass the blame theology. Since you brought up Watergate, it would be like a Nixon supporter claiming Bernstein and Woodward started the Watergate scandal. As to Weiner- wasn't it Pelosi who drove his investigation? Or are you saying the Democrats are so weak they can be forced to do something that is totally wrong? I mean- it was Team Obama that fired Shirley Sherrod, wasn't it? Oops- only Republicans fire people. Except Obama did in this case. Then tried to pass the blame for his staff not doing due diligence before pulling the trigger.

It is the first time that Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington has supported the dismissal of a case against a lawmaker under investigation. Executive Director Melanie Sloan said that the request to file a friend-of-the-court brief supporting Edwards’ legal position is due to the “unprecedented use of the law” to build a campaign finance case against the former vice presidential nominee.

“In the U.S., we don’t prosecute people for being loathsome, we prosecute them for violating the law,” Sloan said in a statement.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/ethics_watchdogs_rise_to_john_edwards_defense-208904-1.html

One of Edwards’ attorneys, former Federal Election Commission Chairman Scott Thomas, told the Justice Department that he cannot recall a single case similar to Edwards’ that was brought during his three decades at the FEC.

From the above mentioned article.

rusty,

lets be clear about who BROUGHT THIS INDICTMENT in the first place. this indictment comes from the DOJ, through the U.S. attorney's office, north carolina, eastern district.

W. bush appointed the attorney in 2006 that is behind the effort to prosecute John Edwards, george E.B. holding. holding's three high profile cases of politicians were indictments of 3 prominent democrats, no surprise there.

i'm sure i don't have to remind you of the outing of a CIA agent, Valarie Plame, by the bush administration. scooter libby took the fall for dick cheney.

and lets not forget the frame-up of Don Siegelman, a popular democratic gov. in the state of alabama, by the bush adminstrations use of the U.S. DOJ to rid themselves of a Democratic gov.

Don Siegelman was sent to Federal Prison by the corrupt and immoral bush administration.

and lest we forget, the republican party wasted billions of tax payer money on the impeachment of President Clinton.

"the edwards prosecution-we have better things to do" Michael Collins

"the political trial of don siegelman" Paul Craig Roberts

Exactly Suzette , Edwards didn't use campaign donations to pay off the woman the money was given by Edwards rich friends to pay the woman off and not a donation to Edwards election campaign. What links this to the campaign effort is that a campaign aide was the middle man which is why it is being called a weak case and if it had not been handled by the aide there would have been no link. Being a cad isn't against the law.

Suzette, whom, would either of you ladies think Team Obama is responsible for anything? Except, of course, for the mythical concept of "jobs saved"- since it is impossible to quantify?

Why would we ever vote for a leader who puts together a team that isn't responsible for anything? Didn't the DOJ hold a very high priced convention, remember the $16 cups of coffee and rolls? According to you two, that was a total waste because all Holder controls in the DOJ is a few attorneys in Waashington DC?

1 I am not a lady 2 that was a Fox news lie made up and very easy to check.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/29/us/politics/report-of-justice-depts-16-muffin-greatly-exaggerated.html

"But the department and the hotel, the Capital Hilton, said the cost of the breakfast had included not only muffins but also fruit, coffee, juice, taxes and a gratuity for the servers. It was also part of a package with the hotel that included "free" use of a ballroom and a dozen meeting rooms during the five-day conference.

In a new introduction to a revised report issued on Friday, the Office of the Inspector General said it had reviewed additional paperwork and now agreed that its conclusions "were incorrect and that the Department did not pay $16 per muffin."

The Justice Department declined to comment on Friday."

So it wasn't $16 for coffee as you claimed.

Sorry whom- It's just that I was taught to give all women the courtesy of thinking of them as ladies until proven wrong.

btw- regardless of whether they were $16 or just $8 a muffin and coffee- each is a waste of taxpayer money. Especially, as you evidently are claiming, the DOJ has no business of even having a nationwide conference because none of the district offices get input from Team Obama (Holder). Inasmuch as you claim they are independent- why get them together and buy them any lunch, snacks, etc. When the company I work for gets together anymore, we are responsible for our own food. Better for the shareholders this way (as well as our wastelines- pun intended). Guess taxpayers don't count.

So we get ok I'm wrong but the DOJ is more wrong because I say so based on my employer when he holds a conference he makes employees pay for their own snacks because my employer is a skin flint so I say the Government has to do the same thing.

whom- as I read your writings, I'm sure there is a statement in there somewhere. If it is that you're wrong, I'd suggest you're right.

No he doesn't.

Why is this even being covered in the news? Do what needs to be done medically and throw his sorry behind in jail!

Hey Nan = Hope All Is Well At Your Home !!!!

Thank you MD! Yes we are doing fine. It is soooo cold today! We felt chilly so we covered up all snug and took a nice nap! Had a good pot of home made chili and a skillet of cornbread for supper. It has been a good day! Snow flying but not having to get out in it is nice!

How are you this evening! Good I hope!

Thanx Nan = I'm O.K. = Got Beer !!!!! Its Very Cold Here As Well = Tiny Bit Of Snow !!!!! Got My Space Heater At My Feet !!!

We have a nice fire going here, nice & cozy! It is still snowing and the wind has been awful today. I have no idea what the wind chill but it feels like it could cut off your ears when you go out in it!

PS I have my snuggy here in my recliner and have a nice cup of hot tea. You know I got my seed catalogs in the mail today! Even though it is still winter I get excited every year when I get them! I love to plant flowers and all sorts of vegetables. My whole summer is taken up with canning and freezing the bounty that just a few seeds provide. Mother Nature is wonderful isn't she? Every fall my sister and I go in halves with a head of beef. Her neighbors raises them every year, and he always calls to see if we want one raised for us. That homegrown meat is nothing like the stuff you get in the stores. They are treated so well and the place is so very clean where they are raised and slaughtered. The meat is vacuum sealed so it doesn't get freezer burned and it is much cheaper than buying it in the grocery stores. They don't have any hormones or antibiotics in the meat and you can really taste the difference. This next year my sister should have enough chickens for us to all have fresh eggs too! I love living in the boonies, we can basically take care of our own needs. The bad thing about it is that if we have to go into town for appointments and such it is about a 70 mile round trip. Now that is a bummer!

Nanette- that sounds wonderful and very similar to my lifestyle. I love to have a nice big fire going in the fireplace (and it doesn't bother me that greenies would give me flack.) I would rather live away from everything and drive as well. I have a Chevy 1500 4x4 that pretty much gets me anywhere. I also get a half beef every year from a local farmer we know. Good old angus. I spent much of the day looking out of our picture windows at snow- took quite a few pics of birds (did have a Coopers Hawk settle in- but I think they are a cool bird) and had a pair of Red Foxes on the ice over the lake this mid day.

Well Rusty, I am a greenie, burning wood is not like burning fossil fuels. Wood is a renewable resource! ;) Greenies wouldn't give you flack for that! We have a Ford F250 4x4 that gets us anywhere we need to go too.

NANETTE, Do I ever agree with you. He broke the law and must go to trial. Do the procedures and get on with it.

Well- assuming that you only cut wood that is on its last leg (close to dying), because a healthy tree is the best defense to consume CO2 so we don't want to cut down an actively growing, leafing tree else deforestation concepts apply. Then assuming you use an axe and split it by hand- not the heavily polluting chainsaw and gas powered 1 cylinder splitter commonly available, and you control the burning to get a clean burn with little or no soot (green scientists announced yesterday that they would like to refocus away from CO2 and towards methane and soot to combat global warming), then burning wood can be green. I'll warn you though- us conservatives usually get yelled at for having pickup trucks- and you have a big one. I'm in your corner on this, but many on this blog probably won't be.

Rusty I am a woman and I can tell you that I have split huge logs with a maul, sledgehammer and wedges. Mostly we get downed trees out of the woods behind our house, we don't cut down good trees. Also the gas company cut down so many trees along a roadway that they put in up on the mountain across the river from us when they were drilling wells, they just let all that wood just lay there. A lot of people around here went and got wood up there. There are truckloads and truckloads of every kind of wood laying just going to waste.

We don't have that truck for joy riding. My husband bought that truck before he became ill. He used that truck for work and we have used it to haul wood, rock, sand, cement, lumber, you name it. It has been a workhorse that is for sure.

Nanette- I love every aspect of the lifestyle you describe. As a humorous side note- I've even taken small dead trees and "planted" them outside our picture window to give the woodpeckers something to play with, and the songbirds a perch. I actively hunt and shoot them- but my tool is a Canon SLR camera. My kids actually bought me one of those camo blinds that fold out and creates a little sitting spot. It was made for deer hunting, etc- but we call it my Java Hut as I bundle up, haul it to the side of the lake with my camera and a thermos of coffee and wait for birds of all types to wander through, plus the other critters. I shoot them and mount them on the walls (pics, of course, normally through calendars I put together). I am a weekend feeder at the local Wildlife rehab place (love to watch the bald eagle eat down its grub), a member and volunteer with the local Audubon, Ducks Unlimited- etc.

Sounds to me that you are a greenie. Keep doing what you are doing for nature. It is a wonderful thing!

John Edwards has serious heart condition says judge

Shouldn't Edwards have a heart before making this bogus claim.

http://kissmygrits1.newsvine.com/_news/2012/01/16/10167500-qatar-a-tiny-country-asserts-powerful-influence-cbs-news

fer = You Got That Rite = It Is Amazing How Many Teers There are In Our Law System - Based On Money{Wealth} = I Always Thought That WE Had One Set Of Laws In This Country = Butt NOT True !!!!! Even If They Steal The Money !!!!!

Yep, if you're super rich the laws do not apply to you, or so it seems.

Edwards had his chance, he asked for the trust of the people while doing illegal stuff, never really showed any remorse or an explanation. HE BELONGS IN PRISON.

End of story.

I only wish Vitter, Cheney and all other crooks in government to join him, soon.

Open== AMEN Brother !!!

They will join him . . . on an island somewhere that no one knows about . . . where they get to live out their days with their ill gotten booty . . . exchanging stories around the fire place after dinner about the crimes they all got away with.

MJ, no it won't be if it's shown he has the financial means to cover it, and he does.

Hey Nannette . . . usually when they don't have a poll question for the weekend it is because too many of the Fux Noise Trolls are showing up . . . as they are tonight . . . they don't want to encourage them by leaving the poll up on a Friday . . .

I hope all is well with you ! Another day above ground ! :)

Hi MsT!

It may or may not be working. There was one non-poll vine on Ed's blog last weekend and it was hit with 5 re-reg trolls. This weekend there appears to be just one (i.e. Dave's not here). Maybe they are just taking the weekend off or will show up today or Sunday. Hope not.

Good morning, Nanette!

Gotta go. See ya later.

Hi Kathe . . . maybe Dave's Not Here and Obama Looses are the only rereg trolls . . . but there are other Fux Noise Foks here too the last few days that stopped posting about a month ago . . . about five of them . . . and yes . . . could be broken :=)

Good morning MsT! Yes another day to be thankful for! I hope that you are feeling well today. The sun is shining today and the wind has died down to just a breeze and a lot of the snow is already melting off. I kind of enjoyed the blustery snowy day yesterday, a good day by the fire and we snuggled up and took a nice nap, topped the day off with a pot of homemade chili and a skillet of cornbread. Couldn't ask for better than that!

Good morning kathe! Hope that you are having a nice day!

You would think MsT that our friends the Sibyls would learn. While they plaster the vine with their worthless information for the weekend..... It will only be a grey space soon with the word "delete" in the middle. No one will know who they are or what they have said. Soon to be unreadable and forgotten. Joyfully!

Thank you Nannette !

And YES Thankful . . . time wounds all heals and Republicons . . . as they are all busy wounding themselves . . .

OBAMA 2012 !!

shoelace, barney, taliban commander, tea for e, moonfish, panhead, 1945 are all the same Sybil..........not here?

And the tea bag we got nothing intelligent to say so we say meaningless dumb stuff brought to you by the tea bagged nation post.

So sayeth the biggest supporter of John Edwards history ever knew. And egg on face now will cause disparaging statements about others.

Whom- your great support 4 and 8 years ago of this clown casts serious doubts on Obama, as your track record isn't so good.

I think almost everybody was blind sighted by Edwards dirty deeds. I liked him for awhile until I really started paying attention to Obama. Just because Edwards fooled people in his personal life should never have an effect or cause doubts on Obama. That is like saying your neighbor is a totally sleaze ball and was able to keep it hidden for some time and when it is found out people start looking at you the same way because you were an unknowing neighbor. Doesn't make much sense does it? Neither does your comment to whomitmay.

we are still paying for the iraqi war that bush took us into based on a LIE. many children have lost fathers and mothers; fathers and mothers have lost sons and daughters, siblings and friends have died in the iraqi war.

bush and cheney lied about the reasons to go into iraq, and he didn't include the cost in the debt when he reported it to the american people.

i feel sorry for the Edwards children, and Mrs. Edwards when she was alive. but this is really none of our business, unlike the iraqi war which is our business.

the Edwards children have suffered i am sure, but appear to have forgiven their father. Bunny Mellon paid for the cover-up. why do the repubs care so much about John Edwards? why do you all care so much about this? what man, democrat or repub hasn't lied about an affair?

i don't really care about the Edwards affair and his child. i care more about the lies told in regard to the iraqi war, and the debt it left. men are weak when it comes to sex. there aren't many men who could resist a cunning manipulative woman who has one thing on her mind. and while i was never a fan of John Edwards, he is attractive, and smart (by some people's standards), apparently at least one woman found him attractive enough to make her move.

John Edwards is not blameless, but it is true that some women are manipulative and will get pregnant to get and keep a man, and we will never know to the extent that that happened.

i'm just sayin'.

To be honest- I thought John Edwards was a first class POS from the first time I heard him. I guess my first impression was just better than the "ettes above.

As for Obama- yep- sometimes you are judged by the actions of those around you and those that support you. Remember 4 years ago- some goofy pastor- maybe in Ohio, came out in support of McCain. Libs were all over that one because of this guys background. I guess you folks don't like to wear the shoes you toss.

No afraid not what doomed McCain or better known as McCrash was McCain because of his bad habit of crashing airplanes and daddy getting him off the Hook. Then there were the lies that came out about McCain being a hero in a pow camp while being held prisoner by the VC that discredited McCains account of his captivity, even the VC who held McCain called him on his BS. Then there was the little matter of McCains involvement with Charles Keating. The preacher from Ohio had very little to do with McCains failure and his number 1 strike was Sarah I wannabe VP Palin the 1/2 term governor of Alaska. So try again with your leaving out what doesn't fit your rant.

rusty,

its true, some goofy pastor did support mcCain, and he may have been judged by that. parsley, the pastor of the world church of ohio says horrible things about Barack Obama and muslims. this was a very personal attack against our President that fit right in with what the repubs were already saying, ND IT WAS/IS NOT TRUE. if mcCain would have accepted the support of parsley, mcCain would have been admitting out loud that he agreed with parsley. even if mcCain does agree with parsley, that is something he ought not say out loud, and mcCain knows it.

but lets be honest. are you saying that the repubs didn't judge Barack Obama because of his association with rev. Wright? are you saying that the repubs didn't try their damnedest to have EVERYONE judge Barack Obama because his father was a Kenyan? are you saying that Barack Obama has not been judged because of the very color of his skin?

this is the problem with the goofy pastor who supported mcCain. their far right, their extreme right, their evangelical right, their HYPOCRITICAL right wing view, their white-supremist views are very dangerous for this world, especially since we know that they hate President Obama, and that is part of the reason for the obstructionism in washington, since the republicans bow to the evangelical right.

I really don't think McCain has anything in common with that pastor, except maybe that they have some semblance of shared political beliefs.

I guess, in the scheme of things, there are many reasons to find disagreement with Obama. I'm sure that there are some people who give the Wright discussion more notice than it deserves. Also, I take Obama at his word that he is a Christian- but I really don't care from a political aspect. Even if he was a Muslim- there are other reasons to not support him.

Now- I'll tell you what I do support from Obama. I fully credit him with the Obama Doctrine- where we do targeted assassinations of enemies of the state. He seems to have a process to determine those who qualify (and I understand his not publishing it) and then he is ruthless in the execution, so to speak. I would suspect that the Doctrine was just invoked again last week, but I understand HRC denying that it was used. Needless to say, there is one less Iranian Nuclear Scientist to cause us trouble. I think he has used this judiciously, and in a manner that hasn't caused outrage from the Middle East. I find it somewhat humorous, though, that many libs point proudly to this doctrine.

But- he is clueless on economic policy. In a very unusual move announced yesterday- Aon Corporation announced it was moving headquarters from Chicago to London. As politicians complain about off-shoring- they need to understand that it is a global economy- and in this case- the Entire Leadership of the Company is moving offshore (taking lots of taxes to London). I predict you may see more of this. The regulatory climate greatly increased under Bush II (regardless of the popular line) and then has accelerated under Obama. He is clueless about a lot of other things as well- that was just current events.

Not as clueless as the GOP and their supporters who for some odd reason fail to see the damage their borrow and spend policies created and want to try it yet again.

whom- too funny. They were guilty of spending. Now, if I'm not mistaken, you libs are mad because they are trying to slow spending. But, I don't blame you for twisting facts and spinning. You should know, though- this is a very left wing blog. All those who are going "Dat's right- uh huh- you betcha" were going to vote Obama anyway- so your spin is wasted. I'm just here for the entertainment value of trying to get some of you to actually think. And- I have been successful with some. You are a pretty tough nut to crack though- I'm not predicting success in generating brainwaves between your left ear and right ear.

They also borrowed what do you think causes deficits? Spin nothing that is facts. Real facts and not that nonsense Reagan told you righties about telling a lie 3 times and it becomes fact. So because you know your not being factual you then make a personal attack, typical GOP practice when you have nothing to say attack the person.

Sorry if you felt attacked. I've always been taught having a battle of wits with an unarmed lady was not fair. I apologize.

So you apologize by insulting me more before saying you apologize? Just who taught you how to apologize? That isn't an apology that is just more insults.

Rusty, you are being rude, you will win no friends by being that way.

Rusty in an earlier comment you referred to the "ettes." We have names you know, and they are not that difficult to spell or type. I have been called everything but purple in my life, but I sure would appreciate it if you would call me by my name from now on OK? I am sure that Suzette would most likely feel the same way.

Nanette- you do seem like a well intentioned, very nice person- I think I understand you more than when I wrote that. I am sorry for lumping you two together. Whom has long been on here and just seems to be a one-way thought, not open to any discussions or alternate opinions. Seemingly just wants to take any element and put a left wing twist to it, without thought, no matter how absurd.

rusty all you do is the same exact things that every tea bagged republican does, repeat talking points. Talking points are meaningless sound bites that to some say a lot but reality is they tell you nothing except what you think they mean. For example, the GOP tells you they are for smaller government but there hasn't been any republican that reduced the size of government in fact government has become larger and more intrusive into peoples personal lives under GOP control. GOP says it is for less taxes yet for every tax cut the GOP gave to the top 2% saw an increase in the 98% share of taxes. You also try to project right wing behaviors onto liberals, liberals do not spin or twist anything. Liberals it is or it isn't based on the information that makes something fact the only time that changes is when new information is provided that changes the fact based on provable evidence. Where as conservatives facts are based on what they believe so even if their facts are proven to be based on false information because they believe their fact is the correct one and there is no changing the conservatives mind no matter what the facts are. One way that this is shown is by how the liberals on this blog can disagree then present facts to show their side and once all facts are proven one can admit that yes they were wrong and move on. A liberals mind can be changed with facts where as a conservative mind can't be changed no matter what the facts are until they are forced into it through pain. One example of that is liberals can see how destructive GOP policies are because we can trace the chain of events back to Reagan. You conservatives on the other hand believe all these terrible events are recent because you are just now starting to feel the effects of the last 30+ years of GOP screw ups, but your ego gets in your way and you refuse to admit that you were wrong.

Inasmuch as I haven't even had Fox news on, Limbaugh, etc, in probably 4 months- if I am on the same topics they are on- then obviously they are reading me, not the other way around... I find Fox News to be about as useless as MSNBC for news content and opinion. I choose to select my own. So I guess I am different than you are. As Talking Points- seems I hear the commentators fairly consistent in their hate for Reagan, the two percent (only, I thought it was the 1%- you may want to review that when you pull them up again) so I assume you are reading from the same script they are.

Conservative broken record syndrome. As well as victim hood except you are not a victim of anyone but yourself. You choose to come here to try to use tired old Reagan lies, lets be honest the GOP has not changed their talking points since Reagan first read them off a teleprompter and when you are told that those are worthless you take it personal. It is not our fault that the GOP keeps repeating those old Tax cuts create jobs, tax cuts pay for themselves, smaller government nonsense that Reagan first started saying in 1979. None of the things you say is new, the GOP has been saying those things for 30+ years, every election cycle. How is it that you missed all of the proof that anyone would need to see that the GOP are full of crap and only since 2009 did you notice that there was something wrong with the country? It took 30+ years of GOP screw ups that got us here, not 3 years.

whom- you seem to be the broken record fixated on Reagan. I don't remember bringing him up. Your tapes seem to be well worn and pretty much used up. I'd suggest updating to something more modern.

You might start updating your records by figuring out what I think, instead of assuming I'm whatever you think I am. I've read you, and pretty much- the above is the broken record that keeps repeating- not much on the original side- yet accusing others of using talking points- then making up examples of how they apply to the person you are responding to.

Funny how everyone of your replies is nothing but worn out GOP talking points. Even when you try denying that is what your doing.

whom- I am going out on a limb here- but I would predict you to be a big backer of medicinal marijuana.

I don't think you have any evidence of what you say I am about- except what you have written yourself. Sort of evidence by decree. You say it, you say it often, you then repeat it- then by golly it must be true.

If you are as much of an expert on my opinions as you claim- then you know that I have held up a number of Clinton's policies as worthy. A number of Obama items as worthy. The Reagan elements I have held to esteem are the fact that he was a master at crossing the aisle and working with the other side. I've often said he and Obama were both great communicators- but Obama really misses this attribute. He could learn from studying Reagan and JFK.

Sounds a lot different that what you ascribe to me as talking points blah blah ad nauseum blah. Or maybe you are just guilty of painting anyone who is a conservative with the same broad brush? Now don't you feel goofy? Sorry about having to be blunt with you, but you don't seem the type to be able to easily grasp nuances in thoughts.

rusty-

the regulatory climate may have increased under bush, but they were not in areas of business or big oil. regulations increased in areas like education.

we all remember the halliburton loophole in 2005 in regard to fracking. this loophole stripped the EPA of its authority to regulate the drilling process that blasts open underground rock formations and releases natural gas. under this loophole, the oil and gas company does not have to disclose the toxic chemicals they use during hydraulic fracturing.

as we now know, fracking is responsible for water pollution and possibly the cause of earth quakes.

we should not have to rely on the oil and gas company for the safety of our water.

also, with issues of water supply at hand, fracking uses millions of gallons of water each time the process is done, 3 million to 18 million gallons of water EACH TIME. a well can be fracked up to 18 times. thats a lot of water. i hope my numbers above are at least close to being correct.

No rusty I have read your posts and have seen you post the same talking points over and over and over. You also use the good old Karl Rove tactic like bring up new topics to distract from pointing out that you are just like the rest of the conservatives in here. You Obama bash, you Clinton bash, you democrat bash and praise the GOP then claim you are an independent.

suzette- you may be right on environmental issue- but the biggest peice of regulatory reform ever, up to that time at least, was Sabanes-Oxely. S-Ox was passed to prevent the next Enron- and was extremely far-reaching and costly.

whom- you do nothing but Republican bash, Democrat praise. No solutions, nothing except Republican bad, Democrat Good. If something bad happens on a Democrats watch, then it is because of something a Republican did. If something bad happens bwhen a Republican is in charge, then it is something they did. If something good happens on a Republican watch- it was because of a previous action by a Democrat. You'v e listed no specific

You seemingly are the master of partisian drivel- then passig same off onto others. You accuse, yet do not list any evidence. Anecdotal evidence only goes so far.

Really rusty as the same could be said of you. Only you seem to forget that you are posting on a left leaning blog and you believe that we should all do what you do, close our eyes and talk about the great things the GOP have done over the last 30 years. Oh yeah that is right the only Good the GOP has done is make it easier for the wealthy to gain more wealth everyone else saw their lively hoods destroyed for the wealthy to gain more wealth. But hey thats ok if you got yours. So tell me rusty just what good has the GOP done? I am really finding it hard to find anything good that the GOP has done that hasn't benefited the few and destroyed the many. About the best thing the GOP did was when Reagan dropped dead and even then that wasn't the GOP's doing it just a thing that happens to people. You keep saying you want evidence but reality is you only want evidence that supports your beliefs anything that doesn't you toss out as a left wing conspiracy against the GOP.

my bad, whom- I read yesterday where you said the differences between conservatives and liberals (I think you called them by the codeword progressives) was that liberals get information from all angles and think through them all and then decide on what makes sense from a facts basis.

I do understand, though, why you would want to keep competing opinions being brought forward- limiting to only those who are left leaning. Sure makes the "facts" that are to be considered to be much cleaner. I would suppose, though, conservatives do the same and only consider their own "facts". Maybe that is what is wrong with this country.

Ah conservatives haven't come up with any new ideals since man first climbed out of trees and started walking up right.

Gosh, did they have taxes back then. I think I remember you stating that the evils of the whole world come from RR's ideas. He was old, but... Now I see you said ideals, not ideas- so I'm not for sure how to answer that since I'm not for sure which party ever developed an ideal?

Sorry but when you back a party of borrow and spend nit wits who tell you if you pay for the tax cuts to billionaires you will get a golden handout PT said it best "theres a sucker born every minute".

Well- the GOP has been guilty of that in the past- but they are trying to change that borrow and spend mentality with the advent of the Tea Party. They are trying to leave you Democrats as the only party comfortable with a borrow and spend plan.

"The Tea Party is “struggling to float viable and effective candidates, unify its base and dictate the terms of national discourse on the economy” in the 2012 election cycle. The demise has been coming for some time, but the seemingly inevitable nomination of Mitt Romney, whom most Tea Partiers dislike, is hastening the decline."

Yeah we all know how much you conservatives hate seeing poor doctors sued for malpractice until you are the ones who suffer from doctors mistakes that is then you want the right to sue a doctor that cuts off your leg when you go in for tonsillitis. Funny how that always escapes you conservatives, yet conservatives sue at or above the rates of any other group.

Nanette- just up above you and Suzette seem to imply that you can't judge Obama by those he has associated himself with. I see you've now changed your mind.

What??

On response 11.3- you seemingly indicated that if people you were around were later found to be sleazy, that shouldn't reflect upon you, and anyone who thinks so isn't making sense. In your response numbered 13.0- you quote biblically that a you can tell a lot by the fruit laying around the base of the tree. Sort of seems contradictory.

You can tell a tree by the fruits it bears doesn't mean what you are reading it as. You can tell a tree by the fruit it bears means that a person's integrity can be seen in his actions. It has nothing to do with those around him.

No no, you missed what I said. I said you shall know a tree by the fruit that it bears, a good tree bears good fruit, a bad tree bears bad fruit. Not the fruit on the ground, the fruit on the tree itself. It is Biblical. It was found that Edwards bore bad fruit. See?

I will try to explain what I meant more clearly. Say I had a neighbor and we were friends and we also worked at the same place. The neighbor seemed like a nice person but I didn't know that the neighbor was say, embezzling from our employer. He was caught and because I knew and worked with that person people assumed that I was as bad as he was. Does that make it clear? I don't know how else to explain it.

Exactly whom!

It's ok. Sometimes it is just best to not use Biblical passages when your trying to make a point. As there are those who have a bad habit of misreading or interpreting them wrong. Like spare the rod spoil the child means beat your kids half to death with a rod to some. Whereas the real Meaning has more to do with measuring a child's deeds because to fail to do so leads to a soiled child, as a rod is an old measurement tool, measurements were in rods and cubits in biblical times.

You make an excellent point whom. I have just heard that saying about the trees and fruit all of my life. I took it for granted that most everybody knew the meaning. I suppose that I was really wrong on that one. Sayings like that are just so common place here, it is part of the way we talk. I will be more careful in the future. I knew about the rod and how so many people use it as an excuse for abusing their children.

Dee, I just speak from experience. I feel for folks going through taking care of loved ones in their last days. I wouldn't even know how to petition Congress, but I don't mind speaking out for those who have gone through the same thing that I and so many others have. I don't care about politics when people of any stripe are hurting.

Dee thank you so much for your kind words. I will keep it in my heart.

Many of us have and will, Nan. I have lost two beautiful Sister to cancer. I may be next. I'm ready and have had many great opportunities in life that I am thankful for. It isn't a punishment it is life. Never become too confident about anything, or take it for granted. I don't wish bad to come even to the worst of people. They had a right to chose a better path.

Robert Frost said it in his poem: "The Road Not Taken"......."two roads diverge in a yellow wood. I looked down one as far as I could to where it bent into the undergrowth........Then took the other as just as fair.......and having by for the better claim, because it was grassy and needed wear......."

can't remember it all off the top of my head, but it is about the path we have taken. I'm not perfect, but have tried to follow my teachings of being the kindess person I can. To think of others, and not myself. When death comes you should no be moan it. Accept it greatfully.

Thankful, you sound so much like my Mom. She accepted her cancer with such dignity and grace. She never complained no matter how bad her condition was. I hope and pray that when my time comes I can be just as she was. My Dad was the same way. He told his doctor right before he passed that he had lived a long and good life and he was not afraid to close his eyes in death. My husband is the same way, even though he is ill he never complains no matter how bad he feels. I have received great strength from them. I have no fear of the future. I have failed in so many ways in my life, but I have tried my best and that is all I can do.

Nan = You are Strong And A Sweetheart = Stay That Way = I Know You Can And Will !!! GB You And All Around You !!!!! I Find It Unbelievable That These re-baggers Are Sooo Damned Cold Towards Our Fellow Human Beings And Citizens !!! They Are Disgusting P.O.S. !!!!!!

To all: Sometimes we get so caught up in our own grief or issues that we think

we are an island, but right there beside us is another person's grief and so on

and so on. My son is losing his battle with MS. I forget that other mothers have

lost son's by whatever means. One's grief is no more valid than the others.

Doesn't make it any less, but you know what I mean. We are all in it together.

Bless your heart Dee. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your son. I am sure that there are many here that feel the same way. Sometimes words are just not sufficient to convey our feelings, but yes we are all in this together. It is wonderful to think that people who have never met in person can develop a bond that binds us all together. We are all human and we all feel joy and we all feel pain and grief. To have empathy for one another is a gift from the heart.

I'm a Steve Jobs fan, to me that's the real potential of this country, it can turn a man with an idea into a super rich guy and also a POSITIVE INFLUENCE TO THE COMMUNITY.

On that same note, you have people like Mike Markkula, a venture capitalist who made it happen for Jobs. Markkula believed in the product and the idea so much he was willing to loan 250 grand to a couple kids in a garage with no credit line, no fame, just an idea.

But Romney didn't do that, he had no interest in the product or the company, he was in to cash in whatever the consequences. You don't load up a company with debt and use the money to buy your own stock at Bain if you cared about product or jobs or the company.

Two very different things. Romney is precisely what gives capitalism, the only system that works, a real bad, stinky name. Romney is not the solution, he IS the problem.

Politics aside, my prayers are with you and your family, keep the faith, remain strong, God knows what He's doing.

Romney didn't provide a service or a product. He used the system to play tricks to get rich at the expense of the product, the service and the jobs. Bain itself will not confirm how many jobs have been created, Romney won't either, and now that the truth has come out, Romney is saying this is an attack on capitalism.

This is not about capitalism or free enterprise. I never seen a gun get up, walk outside, find a target and kill somebody. I don't blame guns, I blame the shooter. I don't blame capitalism, I blame Romney for what he did. The problem is that Romney is like the gun criminal, they give the system a very bad name and what they do is destructive to society.

Romney better come with some answers, I certainly don't like what I hear! It what they say is true, he needs to go away like the slime ball Edwards did! Fade away into obscurity!

We didn't stop him from running in the last presidential primary, we stopped him from running for president. Be thankful for that. We have Obama, free from scandal, the reps have turned over every stone and came up with nothing. So they make up stuff and do anything to distract form the do nothing congress. Reform, President Obama. I'll go for that, and reps have screamed for it, but they didn't plan on it effecting their agenda. Do it asap. Please.

Except this has nothing to do with Edwards being a cad, being a cad isn't illegal. What everyone keeps missing is that friends of Edwards put up the money for the purpose of paying the woman hush money, Edwards did not use campaign donations to pay the hush money. What links it to the campaign funds is a campaign aide was used as the middle man, which is why it is called a weak case.

PRussel,

you seem to feel that prosecuting John Edwards would be giving Elizabeth justice. what John Edwards did to his wife and family happens every day, all day, all around the world.

the Department of Justice prosecuting John Edwards, and giving Elizabeth Edwards justice have nothing to do with each other.

i am not defending John Edwards. what he did was wrong, in my opinion, but just because we feel that he did something wrong, that doesn't mean that a political adversary has the right, under cover of the Department of Justice, to prosecute any democrat, as the republicans did in the case of Don Siegelman, who was framed, convicted and sent to Federal prison.

i remember when bush, rove and the incompetent alberto gonzales, fired 8 republican U.S. attorneys. these 8 attorney were fired because they refused to play politics the "carl rove", the "W. bush" (2 men who claim to be "christian), way. these 8 republican U.S. attorneys refused to politicize their office by dishonestly prosecuting democrats to further carl rove's agenda.

republicans are so big on liberty and freedoms and deregulations for business, big oil, banks, and guns. and they don't care how they go about getting those liberties either. even if they have to put innocent people in prison.

Well maybe you should go talk to Newt I kicked my sick wife out so my 3 mistress could have her place, or how about diaper Dave and his hooker squad or how about mr gays are evil excuse me I need to practice toe taping in the boys room Craig? Funny how all 3 of them are still active in the political field.

Except that the bill doesn't even change anything, unless of course the goal is to scare people. This bill is a clarification of what WAS LAW before the bill was singed. If you have a problem with it, write to the Supreme Court.

Good Monday (MLK Holiday) morning world! Another great day to live, breathe, and enjoy God's great bounty!

OR: the bill does change things. Never before, even with the Patriot Act, was the government able to detain an American Citizen without a Writ of Habeas Corpus. This goes beyond anything before, and is certainly unconstitutional. It just takes time to get through the courts. Don't waste time writing the Supreme Court, they are aware, and are awaiting the process to run its course.

whom: It's always nice to hear you silly spin. Newt, Dave, and Craig are nice guys that have a lot of unfounded (or silly - toe taping?) allegations are being put out by a partisan press that has a vested interest in protecting their candidate.

Guys, I agree with PRussel, Edwards is a slime ball but give it a rest. He is either going to jail or dying. Let it go!

Someone tell Mom Obama is not free from scandal. From his birth, childhood, teenage dope dealing, his falsified college transcripts, to his illegal activities as a young adult, Barack's history is full of scandal. That is why he has been so careful to keep it hidden.

Obama's got more dirt in his past and the 3 whom had mentioned in 20.1, so just be glad he has a press corps that will keep it under wraps.

And everybody have a great day! :-)

have to stop and say thanks capt for that great deep LOL on this find MLK day.

i see you are still running for head comedian for your side. smiling at lease i hope you are.

And then there is reality capt why don't you try living in it for the first time in your life. I never seen anyone that uses rumors as facts then makes fact into rumors as you do capt. The patriot act got rid of Habeas Corpus how do you think GWB was able to pick people up and hold them indefinitely without ever charging them with a crime. The only scandals Obama have are the ones you made up in your own mind.

PS sadly capt believes everything he posted. He is full of Fox news facts and wisdom.

Jesus Christ Capt, one thing is a talking point and the other is deceiving.

Can Congress change the Constitution with a bill? No. The Habeas thing was decided by the Supreme Court when it comes to terrorists, even Americans, detained either here or abroad, and the court said clearly Habeas cannot be denied to those detained. Period. It was also decided as a constitutional matter, therefore it's part of the precedent that comes when interpreting the Constitution.

Why did the Court consider this?

BECAUSE THE GOP TRIED TO DO AWAY WITH THOSE RIGHTS IN THE 109TH CONGRESS, 3 TIMES IN ONE YEAR, AND THEY WERE TOLD NO 3 TIMES.

DID YOU COMPLAIN THEN?

You got the issue flipped on its head, and I hope it's just misinformation and not an attempt to scare people.

If you wanted abuse of human rights, look at the Bush Administration.

From fictitious opinions with no ground on law produced by John Yu and Addinton to the abuse of the Patriot Act under the Alberto Gonzales "leadership", trying to eliminate the right to Habeas for detainees. Why you think they used Guantanamo? Because it's pretty? Because they were trying to keep the country safe? NO, they used it because it's in a foreign country, so they thought rights didn't apply there. The Supreme Court clearly told them they were wrong, and when it comes to a more broad scope of rights, the Supreme Court reversed the GOP controlled congress at least 5 times. 5 times, in one period, you call that what you want, I call it an assault on human rights.

capt,

why don't you give us your source in regard to Barack Obama?

It's all a scare tactic. I follow this carefully, this is one of the major issues that made me realize the GOP is not about freedom but about keeping you down in order to control you. Be afraid, be very afraid.

After 911, Trent Lott was quoting saying "NOW WE CAN DO WHAT WE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO".. What does that tell you? Who's after your rights?

Suzette: thanks for asking. Google barry soetoro. You can check out as many sources as you want.

If you wanted to extract info from a prisoner you'd take them to your own HQ, correct? That's what they call the field advantage, that's why they ask suspects to go for an interview not at a coffee shop but at the police station. Well, renditions were not about that, they moved foreign suspects to foreign countries to circumvent and opinion called the protections established by the courts in Verdugo, transferring a detainee to a foreign facility under foreign control to be able to conduct torture and all sorts of deplorable things.
In 2007, the case of the Canadian rendered to the middle east and tortured appeared before the Congress for investigation. The man only asked for an explanation. I saw a newly elected representative, a democrat and former United States Marine stand up and apologize to the victim. The GOP ranking member refused to apologize in one of the most disgusting displays of arrogance and ignorance I've ever seen.
So, again, who's after your rights?
No spin when it comes to this, the GOP has simply NO MORAL STANDING WHATSOEVER to come talk about rights when they've spent years trying to circumvent them.

I'll give you a better source, not some guy writing stuff to the conservative group, how about the Supreme Court of the United States?

BOUMEDIENE et al. v. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, et al.

Held: Petitioners have the constitutional privilege of habeas corpus. They are not barred from seeking the writ or invoking the Suspension Clause's protections because they have been designated as enemy combatants or because of their presence at Guantanamo.

Notice the defendant in the suit, GEORGE W. BUSH.

AGAIN, who's after Habeas?

Supreme Court opinions that interpret the constitution cannot be altered by law when it comes to the interpretation of a right. The only recourse is a Constitutional Amendment.

END OF DISCUSSION, it doesn't matter what some right winger tells writes to try and scare people, this is LAW, it cannot change short of an Amendment.

The Canadian you mentioned was picked up in Afghanistan, given into American custody, and then returned to their custody for interrogation.

As most of you know, the rendition program was started with Clinton and has been highly successful for extracting information. McCain is wrong to say it doesn't work, he sang like a canary eventually. We all would, I certainly don't criticize him for singing, but only point out he is wrong to say it doesn't work.

The problem with the NDAA of 2011 is it allows American citizens, picked up in America, to be handed to military authorities to be rendered. That is beyond the scope of the Patriot act (another bill I do not trust) and has never happened yet. Obama promises he would never do it, even if you believe him, do you believe all of those currently running? I don't!

Those of you who have read my previous posts know I don't trust government, and neither did our founding fathers. I like freedom, and am afraid we are giving it away in the name of "security". Just my opinion, and that's all I've got to say about that.

It was started under Clinton, and ABSUED under GWB. That's the difference.

What you fail to understand is that that prisoner has rights, including habeas rights, and those rights allow you to challenge BOTH the allegations against you and the very nature of the detention.

But here's the part in the NDAA the GOP forgets.

1. the bill is an H.R. bill, meaning it came from the HOUSE. The provisions they so complain about and use to scare people were introduced by their OWN PARTY.

2. The bill reads: "Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force"

This bill does not even come close to promoting indefinite detentions of anything. It's been the GOP who has insisted on Military Commissions, specifically Sen. Lindsey Graham of SC. Don't blame Obama for what has been law since the days of the Bush regime.

capt.,

it won't surprise you that i am disappointed in your response to "google barry soetoro".

i have never googled that before because i knew what i would find, but to "play nice" i did so now. nothing there surprises me. orly taitz? breitbart? the birther movement?

i know others here are "birthers" also.

with all due respect, really, you sound alot like pat buchanan. are you afraid to admit that you are a white supremacist, or am i reading you wrong. i am trying to understand how you and others could believe this crap.

OR capt wont listen he has his talking points down and refuses to hear anything other then the GOP keeps him safe from people he is afraid of. We all ready seen capts reasoning in play, reservations for native Americans were a democratic action to keep native Americans poor and welfare keeps blacks poor because they don't have to work for it. Can you tell what capt is?

Nope, the cases were decided on the grounds of Habeas, not on the MCA or any other law.

The provisions restricting Habeas IMPLEMENTED BY THE GOP CONGRESS were thrown out on a Constitutional ground, not on any other ground.

Therefore, any similar law will fall under the same precedent.

It's CRYSTAL CLEAR, so please, don't try to scare people.

Oh, and for those who don't know, the dissent in those cases, the justice who agreed with indefinite detentions and Habeas suspension was no other than Antonin Scalia, the model Justice for Romney, Perry and the entire GOP clown show.

One thing scared people do OR is try to scare others of what they fear. That is why the KKK is still able to get people to join.

I just wanted to make it clear. They are not scared, if they were they wouldn't vote for a candidate who considers Scalia a role model. And who nominated Scalia? A man who has said publicly Brown v. Board was wrong and that torture is constitutional? It was Ronald Reagan. Ergo.

Scared? They wouldn't have voted for McCain, a candidate who agreed with the MCA and other horrific, fascist policies.

They are trying to scare YOU, that's a different thing.

This is a bill that hasn't changed anything, it itself tells you it gives no more or less power to the president or the DOA. It's a bill that simply codifies into law the holdings of the Supreme Court and those are the verbatim words of Sen. Linsay Graham, R-SC, who DEFENDED those provisions against the attack mounted by Sen. Feinstein D-CA.

So let's call it what it is for once. The GOP implemented their framework of destruction of the Bill of Rights, now they complain about their own doing?

If they don't like it, they can ask their GOP congressmen to vote against that, nobody in the Democratic party has proposed those things. In fact, Sen Lehey, the chair of the Senate Judiciary since 2007 walked out of the chamber after the GOP controlled 109th congress mounted his first attack in human rights back in 2005. He called the proceedings "a sham", and that's exactly what they were.

Oh capt's afraid he is a true believer, he votes for the people who have mastered the art of scaring scared rabbits to vote for their illusions of safety. I bet capt has a stock pile of plastic sheeting, duct tape, Spam and bottled water under his bed.

Open- I'm not a constitution scholar by any means. And, to go one record for the nth time on this subject- I applaud the Obama Doctrine- where he pro-actively takes the opportunity to rid the world of people who have been determined to be up to no good- but one of them was an American Citizen if I remember. How would that factor into your above comments? Would it be a factor that the guy wasn't taken prisoner?